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RD313
January 8th, 2006, 05:16 AM
After being here and on other boards for a while, I realized that knowledge on pinhole cameras and their uses are almost HIDDEN. It seems that most people using a pinhole camera are just non-verbal about what they do.

Seriously, look at every shoecam thread posted here. Most people leave comments like "How'd you do that?"

And people have said it : using a pinhole cam is very much like being a sniper, you have to earn your stripes, and most people think that pinhole cammers should have to do everything on their own, without help from anyone else.

Most of it is to keep it away from newbs. Why? Because the prospect of a hidden cam that you WEAR sounds a hell of a lot better than a camera you carry, or one you keep in your pocket. And every single time a person is busted doing any kind of candid photography, it's a major hit to the rest of us.

I know, personally, that in August of last year, when I first started shoecamming, I had to ask for a lot of help, and very rarely got it. I actually thank a couple of guys (OhmsLaw, Texray) for pointing me in the right direction for everything. However, no one ever just LAID what I needed to know, and no one ever gave me a truly straight answer.

Anyways, I realized that a lot of people have questions on pinhole cameras, for use in their candid photography.

I decided to start this thread, to have people ask questions about it. So, feel free to ask me anything about power/video assemblies, camera choices, body-worn setups, or techniques.

Nothing is too broad, and nothing is too specific. I don't claim to know everything, but I claim to know enough to help people out with most concerns they might have.

I'm starting this thread because I really don't want people wanting to use pinhole cameras left in the dark. The reason most people using pinhole camera setups get busted is because they have crappy setups, or poor technique. I want to help put an end to that for anyone here who wants or needs the help.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this kind of information isn't in high demand, but people should have access to that kind of information if they want it, and I'm here to provide it.

mammariecammery
January 8th, 2006, 07:54 AM
hey, good idea......I know my stuff about pinhole cams and have posted a full technique on 1st page of another thread, always stuff to learn though....but, just wondering if you know of anything to record footage....I'm sure you're aware of my situation from the other thread...
but, I need to find something to record cams footage at high res, basically other than a shitty 320x240 PVR output......any suggestions? it's shit to have a good cam but a shit recording medium.....

mammariecammery
January 8th, 2006, 09:08 AM
hey CK.....do you mean the 'sony video walkman'? or is it a camcorder?
I'm sure i'll go down the mini DV (AV-IN) route....just hoping there'd be something a lil cheaper tis all...........

hey, you get my email? (hope it helps) ;)

think I mentioned before, but there's a cam with over 400 tv lines at:
in wired section (http://www.flyonthewall.uk.com) for £65

turi
January 8th, 2006, 09:34 AM
i have the Mustek pvr 140 ,and she have 3 levels to get to records with you spy cam ..High quality have a resulution from 640*480 and LP have 320*240...my question i need a pinhole camera ,that have good low light ...

CaprisPleaze
January 8th, 2006, 08:50 PM
RD313,

You are a good person. Your right. Too many people are stingy with info on candid setups. And each time someone gets caught it has the potential to make it harder on ALL OF US.

I remember when I was going the Marshall PI route. I was asking questions on how to go about concealing it properly, and some pointers. And all I remember getting is something like "I wouldn't do that, that's a bad idea", etc.

But I don't remember being told what would be a GOOD idea.

This is a very good idea, and a very unselfish gesture from you.

You are appreciated :)

homersimpson
January 9th, 2006, 12:23 AM
RD313,

You are a good person. Your right. Too many people are stingy with info on candid setups. And each time someone gets caught it has the potential to make it harder on ALL OF US.

I remember when I was going the Marshall PI route. I was asking questions on how to go about concealing it properly, and some pointers. And all I remember getting is something like "I wouldn't do that, that's a bad idea", etc.

But I don't remember being told what would be a GOOD idea.

This is a very good idea, and a very unselfish gesture from you.

You are appreciated :)


CaprisPleaze, dont sell yourself short. You and mammariecammery have helped me out a great deal with the questions I had. So the both of you give yourself a part on the back, because the info I was given was definitely appreciated. BTW, I will have some more questions in a cpl days :)

RD313
January 9th, 2006, 02:25 AM
Thank you, CaprisPleaze.
And mammarie, let me be a little more specific regarding your situation.

For starters, MiniDV will give you the best results. Ultra high bitrates, and recording quality good enough for any pinhole. MiniDVs go for at least $350. You can find some decent small ones (pocket sized) for less than $500

There is the Mustek PVR that turi mentioned, as well as the Archos series. These are kind of pricey, but get pretty decent recording (almost as good as miniDV). These range anywhere from $200 to $400.

Finally, there's the kind that are just barely good enough if you want the lowest end :
1.) Pacific Image Primeview 801 : Records ASF at 352x240 @ 25FPS with a bitrate of 1500Kbps. It has no screen, and goes for under $100. I've never heard anyone talk about this one in practice.

2.) Mustek PVR-A1. I use this personally, it records ASF at 320x240 @ 25FPS, it also has a bitrate around 1500Kbps. It requires a good camera (preferrably black and white) and good technique. It also requires decent lighting. It can also be found for under $100

3.) Neuros Recorder II : A fairly newer recorder, records MPEG-4 at 640x480 @ 30FPS, however, it's bitrate is only 2MBps. I've seen demo videos of this. While it would take great video at 320x240 (2Mpbs for 320x240 is pretty damn good) it's videos of 640x480 are fairly lacking. This one can be found for under $150

These recorders can sustain a short range (under 4 feet) and are good enough to kep video at walking speed. The only problem is that these recorders can't properly record a lot of movement. In other words, if you plan on swinging the camera around, then expect nothing less than a lot of blurs.

Basically, you'll want to be able to stand still and record one spot for at least a full second in order to get some decent frames. So, no flybys with these recorders.

The more expensive ones...... and the MiniDV..... those are different. But hey, they're at least 4 times the price of the cheaper ones.

In either case, the important thing is to try to do these things slowly, to avoid video blur.
==============

Turi : You're going to want a CCD camera. And you're going to want one that shoots at least 300 lines. If you want low light, you're going to want a black and white camera. You'll probably want a Sony camera. You can find most of the Sony SuperHAD CCD cameras for under $130. Most of them are around the $100 range.

As for low lux : anything that promises .00003 lux or anything like that means that the camera will see in low lux, so long as there is an infrared light. Depending on how dark, you'll probably be wanting to go with something that can see in less than 10 lux.

Just try spycameras.com if you live in the united states, as for anywhere else, I don't really know where you could find that kind of stuff.

mammariecammery
January 9th, 2006, 07:31 AM
CK.....yeah well.....it'll get to you next day! if you order....mine got to me in 2 days & i'm in NIR......although, since you have a sony vid walkman, the quality of a 600 line cam will really show, if you had an average PVR, it'd be a different story.....
SHIT! just noticed you said it's just over £100! that's a really good deal, gonna take a look myself ;)
i'll resend email now ;)

mammariecammery
January 9th, 2006, 08:01 AM
hey RD...just noticed your comment on my situ ;).....thanks for your help, think i'll just save for a mini-DV ;)

makavelithedon
January 11th, 2006, 11:53 PM
Generally speaking, would it be advisable to buy a mini dv recorder or a sony dvd recorder? From what I've heard, the dvd's only hold 30 mins of footage while the mini dv's can hold an hour. ARe there any other advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks for this thread. I've been looking for something like this for a while. I hope to get a good setup so I can contribute. Thanks!!

RD313
January 12th, 2006, 12:46 AM
Both are good, the mini DVD recorders can record at the same, if not better quality than miniDV tapes. Someone I know had me test out their mini DVD camera to see if it was any good, and the recording quality of it was surprisingly good.

I actually don't know the exact numbers...... I'm pretty sure that most DVD recorders, will record at 640x480, and I know that some miniDV recorders will record at that resolution or higher.

As for bitrates, miniDV is fixed at 25Mbits a second, and the bitrate for a DVD recorder depends on the recorder and it's individual settings.

From experience I know that a lot of DVD recorders are solid, about as good as MiniDV, and certainly more than good enough for bagcams, or for recording in general.

Just know this, those DVDs can get pretty pricey. Just like any other disc, they can only be written once, so you're probably going to end up having to get a DVD-RW if you want to be able to overwrite them.

Both formats have video that can be a hassle to work with, you'll have to have some decent video editing software to convert those from their native formats (DV and MPEG2) to something that can shared on the net (like DivX or MPEG4).

I guess it really depends on price, size, and use. If you're going for a bagcam, then you really can afford any kind of camera that'll FIT in your bag. Most people who bagcam do not use another lens, they just use the actual camera's lens. If you want the smallest, then miniDV is the way to go.

All right, in short -
DVD recorders
- Pros : possibly cheaper, decent quality, straight to DVD (MPEG2)
- Cons : larger, DVD-Rs can only be written once, they'll only hold 20 minutes at highest settings (they can be made to go anywhere from 20 mins to an hour, usually)

MiniDV Recorders
- Pros : Possible higher resolution, and quality, great if you have a firewire port on your PC, smaller than DVD recorders, tapes can be overwritten.
- Cons : possibly more expensive

Oh, and just for future reference, I've never seen a Sony product that WASN'T good. I personally know that for at least the last ten years, Sony has made some seriously awesome CCD camera systems (I'm pretty sure that they only have one line of camera that has been evolving for the last ten years, at least), and Sony seems to excel in every area of media when it comes to quality.

I've always recommended Sony because even though the price is higher, their quality is usually the best. Other names to look out for? Canon and Panasonic.

CaprisPleaze
January 12th, 2006, 12:15 PM
Hey RD313,

I've sent email after email to that spycameras place, and they haven't answered any of them. I know you said they have good customer service, but this is making me wonder. I don't see why the have a contact email address if they're not going to answer emails.

I would call them, but I don't wanna pay long distance charges.

By the way, I've never messed with a B&W camera. But the one I'm looking at is rated 600 lines resolution @ .003 lux.

Do black and white cams have a good picture? Can they look as sharp as color cams? It just seems weird thinking about clarity and contrast when their is no color...

**EDIT**

How could you protect a camera like this? http://www.spycameras.com/vc-740ep.htm

It looks like you could damage it easily. I doubt those folks at spycameras are going to respond to my emails, so if you could show me how to protect this camera I'd probably find a way to wear it.

Also, how low of a lux rating do I need for places like stores?
I keep seeing all these lux ratings tossed around, but I don't know how dark .003 or .0003 really is.

Would I really need a camera that powerful as the one listed in the above link?

Please help me out, thanx :)

RD313
January 13th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Wow, that camera's pretty hardcore. I'm confused that they're not answering your emails. They usually answer within one to two business days. Maybe it was different because every single time I've ever emailed them, it was regarding an order.

As for the camera itself :
Yes, it'd be ridiculously sharp. Black and white cameras are sharper, clearer, and focus better. In lower light, all they need to do is change their contrast, so that's done a lot quicker. I know it may seem a little odd to you, but think of this, when you reduce all the color in the world to shades of gray, instead of a pallete of red, green, and blue values, suddenly, everything gets faster.

It depends on what you need the color for. Honestly, that camera would probably suit someone like me a lot more than a guy shooting regular candids. As for the lux rating, a rating that low means that the camera will shoot in darkness (near or at pitch black) so long as you have an infrared source of light.

If you're going to be at a lot of events, where there are going to be a lot of cute girls, briefly exposing themselves, then this is the kind of setup you want. However, if you're going to be taking regular candid shots, then an actual digital camera might be a better choice.

As for your question about what kind of rating you need for places like stores? If you just want a decent color camera, indoors, then you're going to need something that can shoot at 10 lux or less. Aim for something around 5 lux, colorwise.

As for protection? Well, that depends on what you're going to use it in. If it's in your shoe, make sure that you kind of clean out the area where it'll be. And make sure the area where your lens is going to be exposed is clean on a decent basis. If you wear it ANYWHERE on your body, make sure that the camera itself isn't making contact with the skin itself. Basically, if you're going to keep this camera inside of something, then that's all the protection it really needs. The roughest use I can see out of these is shoecamming, and mine's been in pretty good shape.

Keep the camera securely in place, make sure it's not flopping around, that's probably the most protection I can say you'll need. If you can keep it in place, inside of something, or behind something, then the camera will stay safe. When not in use, you should probably put it in a place where it's not going to sit out in the open. When in storage, make sure that the camera isn't resting on it's power assembly.

Don't try to cover it with tape, or anything, believe it or not doing something like that will make sure that the camera doesn't release heat. You wouldn't want your cam frying :P

As for damage? Yeah, they're easy to damage. Don't drop them, don't step on them, and make sure that nothing ever rests on top of them.

When you get your camera, make sure you put in a special request to have the power/video aseembly on the back of the camera extra secure. They'll do that for you, and trust me, it makes a load of difference.

As for power? You MIGHT need a camera that can shoot at that high a resolution. What do you need it for? I would recommend it for the highest-tech shoe-cammer that's going to do indoor uppies, armed with a miniDV recorder. I would also recommend it for the high-tech sleeve-cammer that's going to take it clubs (of course, he'd also need to build himself a small IR light, probably something around 8 LEDs if he wanted to take it clubbing)

As for you? If butts are your thing, and you're going to use it in malls? There's probably enough light in them for you to take a color camera. I mean, it all depends on you. What's more important to you? Color, or image clarity?

The black and white is for the guy who needs the sharpest possible picture, but if you'd like to SEE what color thong's sticking out of the back of a girl's jeans, then you probably want a color camera.

You just want regular candids, right? And you're going to take screencaps of your miniDV footage, right? This ISN'T going to be a shoecam, right? If that's all true, then I would recommend a color camera, with a lux rating of 5 or less, and an image output of 400+ lines.

Seriously, that's probably more than enough for decent miniDV footage :)

However, if you're going to be shoecamming, then you totally would want (but not really need) a camera just like the one you posted.

turi
January 13th, 2006, 10:00 PM
where can i take the IR Light in the shoe??

RD313
January 13th, 2006, 11:43 PM
I don't actually think that it would be feasible to get the IR in the shoe. This thing wouldn't be anything small. You'd probably need to build a small IR lamp. Even the most powerful IR LEDs don't produce enough power to supply light where you need it.

Basically, you'd probably want to adapt a small flashlight to work with an IR LED, and if possible, more than one (at least 4).

Also, most IR LEDs require somewhere around the same voltage that a AA battery produces, so for every LED you'd need a AA battery.

Some LEDs also emit a visible red light, especially when you use several of them, so be careful. I wouldn't recommend use of an IR lamp until you guys really know what you're doing. An IR lamp would be something that someone very high tech, and very specialized would use.

Simply put, I have design ideas for an IR lamp, I've actually assembled the power supply and the LEDs, but I have not built a container for them because I have not yet figured out the exact techniques, or what design would work best for it.

I'll say this, if you want a light source, consider using a flashlight or a cell phone. Of course, this is risky, and very tricky, so I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Anyways, until I find a practical reason for building a portable IR lamp, I'm not going to build one. Of course, if anyone does, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

CaprisPleaze
January 15th, 2006, 07:49 PM
RD313,

Thanx man. I rhink I'll call the spycameras place since they won't answer my emails.

I'm still a little spooked about bringing my miniDV camera into a store. I mean, while I'm recording. I'm thinking about just turning on my miniDV camera, putting it into my coat pocket, and walk into a couple of stores and see if an alarm sounds. That way, if an alarm does go off, I'll already have an excuse made up to tell whoever. As long as 'they' don't have any proof of me filming, i'm cool. The reason I'll have it on instead of off is that if they DO have a detector, it picks up on a certain frequency that the camera gives off while it's on, and it won't when it's off.

So, if nothing goes off, well then.....woohoo! Ima be capturing some ass, and I'll sure let you guys see it ;)

Thanx again RD313...

makavelithedon
January 15th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Careful with those indoor shoots man. Security is always looking out for people acting shady. If you do go, make sure to have it all setup before you enter and act smooth. A problem I have with just using a digital cam is that I always have to reach into my pocket to take it out and "wake it up". Lighting can also be bad indoors. Anyways, I'm sure you know what you're doing.

Did you say that you have a Canon zr200? What sort of complaints/positives would you say for that cam? The only thing I can see as somewhat of a downside is its size. It seems larger than the Sonys. Any other problems?

makavelithedon
January 15th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Oh yeah, and is it NECESSARY to use firewire, or just advisable? (to transfer from miniDV to the PC) From what I've been reading it sounds like you can use a 2.0 usb as well, but that since it is a master/slave relationship, rather than peer to peer, it can take away from the quality.

Do you need editing software to convert the files so that you can post them on the web? Does this come with the camcorder?

homersimpson
January 16th, 2006, 12:30 AM
Since we are on the subject of camcorders....give me an example please. I am looking at this camcorder Canon ZR100, it has AV-IN and most importantly it is in my price range. http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Canon_ZR100/4505-6500_16-31263285.html site list the good and bad. Ok, the bad says poor low-light performance. What would be poor low-light performance. I plan on using it for candids inside my gym. Does this mean the video will look like crap? I mean the inside of the gym looks bright too me, but will it to the camcorder. Or does "low light performance" mean inside a room with a single light bulb. I will be kicking myself up and down if I buy this thing or any other and the vids end up looking like a blame webcam.

makavelithedon
January 16th, 2006, 01:29 AM
From what I can tell from the reviews and my limited personal experience, they are saying that the lighting better be pretty darn good for the quality to be good. It would work really well outdoors, and indoors is somewhat iffy. It's hard to say for sure. But if your gym is really well lit, it would probably be fine. But again, that really is something that is hard to know without trying it out. The room i'm sitting in right now has quite a few low power lights on but pictures don't turn out too well in here with my canon powershot. That might be entirely different though.

Have you looked at the zr200? I don't think it costs too much more. I'm not sure about the low light quality on that one, but the reviews I read of it were pretty good. I'm hunting for a camcorder, so as soon as I pick one up I can tell you how that one turns out.

Sorry if that didn't help any. I understand your concern. I'd hate to get something that ended up sucking. I guess just keep asking around

makavelithedon
January 16th, 2006, 01:39 AM
Yeah man, after looking around more, it seems like all canons have shitty low-light permormance. Most of the other ones are good down to 0 lux, or at worst 1. The canon is at 2. The sony is also nice b/c it is smaller. Downside, well actually deal breaker for us, is that the lower end sony's dont have AV-in. So from what I can tell, our choices are either get an affordable Canon that has AV-in but has pretty crappy low-light capability, or get one of the mid to high range sony's. The best would probably be the Sony b/c it is small, light, and has AV-in, but it'll be spendy.

makavelithedon
January 16th, 2006, 01:44 AM
I was reading a user review for the canon and this guy said that it really sucked indoors. And he is just some guy using it for normal purposes. I was leaning towards the canon, but now I'm having second thoughts.

makavelithedon
January 16th, 2006, 01:48 AM
One last thought- the Canon zr100 can be bought for as low as 214$. My powershot digital camera cost more than that. So that is probably too low for a decent camcorder. I'm guessing that I'm going to spend closer to $500 to get a good one. I guess I don't mind as I'll be using it for other purposes as well

CaprisPleaze
January 16th, 2006, 12:37 PM
I don't know a whole lot about video cameras, but if your just using your camcorder for recording video from a pinhole camera I seriously doubt that it matters whether the camcorder is good or bad in low-light situations. All it's doing is recording the image from the pinhole cam onto the miniDV tape.

The pinhole cam would be what matters. I can't see how the miniDV camera would play a factor, as far as low-light.

Now if your using the PI attatchment, then YES, the camcorder does matter. But then too, the PI doesn't even fit the Canon ZR series.

Can't say much about my experience with my canon ZR200. I've only used it outdoors when there was adequate sunlight. Just testing it out making sure it worked. And the picture quality was pretty nice. Whether it's good in low-light or not, doesn't matter in my situation. Because I'm only going to use it for recording from a pinhole cam. For regular camcorder usage I'll use my Sony DCR-HC21. It's VERY good in low-light or NO light (has infrared system for complete darkness).

Both of them came with digital video software.

RD313
January 16th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Yes, CaprisPleaze is exactly right. The recording quality talks about the camera's recording capabilities using it's own lens. You should know, that miniDV recording quality is FIXED at 25MBit/Sec. So, it doesn't really matter what miniDV recorder you get, they're ALL going to be the same quality.

The most important thing is the pinhole choice.

makavelithedon
January 16th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Yeah HOmer, what they both said makes sense. The main reason that I wouldn't want a Canon is that I plan on using my camcorder for other (non-candid) uses as well, including a lot of indoor shooting. If you plan on only using it with a pinhole, then what you need to be worried about is the quality of the pinhole, not the camcorder.

homersimpson
January 16th, 2006, 11:55 PM
Thanks for the info. Had finally decided on the PI attatchment , but now since what you guys are basically saying is that I could go with a low end camcorder and still have good quality if the pinhole cam is good. Have you guys seen any pinhole cams in the USA that are 400 lines CCD and at a good price. I seen some that were $265 and I sure dont want to pay that much. Crap, now not sure what to do PI attatchment vs pinhole.

turi
January 17th, 2006, 07:21 AM
have everybody samples of upskirt videos in darkness (low light)with pinhole cam with pvr and mini dv??please i think about to buy pvr OR mini dv with av in

mammariecammery
January 17th, 2006, 07:27 AM
please i think about to buy pvr OR mini dv with av in
go for mini dv.....mini DV & pinhole cam

turi
January 17th, 2006, 11:02 AM
i think about sony dvd 203E...she have AV in...but how record I with pinhole cam??

mammariecammery
January 17th, 2006, 12:39 PM
connect (wired) pinhole cam to 'AV-IN' socket on camcorder ;)

CaprisPleaze
January 17th, 2006, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the info. Had finally decided on the PI attatchment , but now since what you guys are basically saying is that I could go with a low end camcorder and still have good quality if the pinhole cam is good. Have you guys seen any pinhole cams in the USA that are 400 lines CCD and at a good price. I seen some that were $265 and I sure dont want to pay that much. Crap, now not sure what to do PI attatchment vs pinhole.


Hmmmm. You must have missed some of RD313's posts.

www.spycameras.com

They have plenty of pinhole cameras under $265.

They mostly have B&W, but they do have some color ones too, and I'm pretty sure MOST of them are under that price.

Unless you're trying to get a TOP NOTCH pinhole.

Anyways, just go to their home page and click on the link to see all of their products. Then go to pinhole cams, board cams with housing, body worn cams, etc.

I FINALLY got in touch with the guy there. They don't seem to wanna answer emails, but they'll answer the phone, and they're pretty helpful. At first I was thinking they have horrible customer service because they wouldn't even pick up their phone, but it turns out that I was calling their FAX line, lol.

So, just check that site out for now. And if anyone else has some recommendations, feel free to post a few sites.

makavelithedon
January 17th, 2006, 06:50 PM
Are there any shops that I could physically go into where they sell pinholes? I'm the kind of person that hesitates when buying things online. And I'd love to be able to talk to someone at the store. I live in a large metropolitan area in CA so it seems like if they do exist, there should be one here.

RD313, you mentioned that if you make a request, they will make the back of the board "stronger". You don't by chance know if they'd be able to make a pinhole that is both wired and wireless capable do you? I have one now that has wires for AV and for power, but also has a transmitter. I'd like to get another one that is similar but with better resolution.

Thanks again

makavelithedon
January 17th, 2006, 07:04 PM
What's the deal with the different lenses for the pinhole cams? Some are conical, super conical, flat, concave, etc..

homersimpson
January 17th, 2006, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the link. Anyone have any info or opinions on these cameras...http://www.spycameras.com/miniature_pinhole_camera.htm the HRC-700P camera? Also, whats the difference between the "board" and "housed" cameras. Just that one is protected and one isnt? I will probably just go with the PI attatchment because for me its just to big a risk to buy a pinhole cam and not know what kind of quality of vids I will be getting. Too bad we dont have sample vids of the pinhole cams at the site.

makavelithedon
January 18th, 2006, 12:02 AM
I have a pinhole cam that, as I mentioned earlier, can be used for both wired and wireless. I've taken some "practice" vids around the house to test the quality. The downside is that since I don't have the camcorder yet, I recorded the footage onto vhs, and I don't have software to put that on the PC to show you. Plus, I bought it overseas from a street vendor, so I can't know for sure what the resolution is. I paid about $15US. I really doubt if it would be more than 380 resolution. It just doesn't seem like they would sell it for that cheap.

Anyways, the vid I took came out with great footage. I set it up in a room at night with only the lights in the room for lighting and was very impressed. It's not quite as good as vids with my digital camera I don't think, but it is really not bad at all. I was very happy with it. So I think I'll just put off buying another one and use this one as long as I can.

I'd probably just listen to what the others have said. 400 would be great, but 350 and up is fine. Other than that it is up to you. I don't think I'd want one that ever goes to b & w. I just wouldn't really get that much out of that. But RD313 is right, those cams probably have good resolution. And pinholes are a lot more versatile than the PI.

Good luck! BTW, one thing I read said that the housed pinholes do better in low light, but I'm not sure if that is true or not.

homersimpson
January 18th, 2006, 10:44 PM
Big thanks for the info! If you ever get the chance post that sample vid if you can. Guess I am about 3 weeks away from buying something. Just have to figure out which way to go. BTW, I feel the same as you...sure dont want to see no butt in B/W.

makavelithedon
January 18th, 2006, 11:08 PM
It also seems like no matter how good a camera I buy, it is really hard to get an uppie (what I mainly like) while indoors. It is possible, but the lighting is usaually so crappy. And really, even my digital camera which is much better quality than my pinhole, doesn't do all that well in low light. Maybe it's cause it's a canon? RD said that indoor uppies are a lot more difficult to get in good quality than outdoors. Luckily I live somewhere with nice climate so I can be outside a lot.

I'll keep y'all updated on my purchases and post some samples when possible. Thanks for all the help

makavelithedon
January 18th, 2006, 11:21 PM
I guess I answered my own question from earlier. I was wondering if I could buy another pinhole that was both wired and wireless. While looking on a website, i saw that I could buy a wired pinhole with the wireless package which includes a transmitter that attaches by RCA to the pinhole. So yes, you can have both. What I like about mine is that I don't need an attachment so the wired/wireless pinhole is quite small. Hope that helps someone.

Homer, thanks for the link you posted on the UK voyeurman thread, that is a nice site with good comparisons of cameras.

RD313
January 20th, 2006, 05:08 AM
Damn, I've missed a LOT of the conversation.
Anyways, some answers/opinions from me.

makavelithedon :
Yes, there is probably a "spy shop" near you,
however, I would highly recommend NOT going in person.

Those places' clientele usually involve local and federal law enforcement.
When you see a video of a sting operation conducted by the local police, they probably got their gear and setups from one of these spy shops. Anyways, you going in there, to buy what you're going to buy, and NOT being some kind of law enforcement agent will probably set off some red flags.

You should know, the majority of the guys who run those stores were at one time private detectives, cops, military, or of that type. Not only that, ALL of them have ties with people who currently ARE law enforcement. In California especially, you probably want to avoid these kind of places.

Seriously, why would ANYONE besides a cop and a creep need a pinhole camera?

As for the different lens types, most of them are just shapes. However, sometimes there is information regarding what sort of viewing field the camera has. For something like uppies, you'd like to have the smallest field possible, but the sharper the angle, the more expensive, and the larger it is.

As for pinhole cameras with housing? I don't see any reason why they would do better in low light. The housing just covers the camera, it has nothing more to do with it.

And indoor uppies? Yeah, those are amazingly hard to do. For these kind of things, anything where you would need something to record in low light, you want to go black and white. Seriously, would you want to get an okay shot some of the time? Or would you prefer to get a good shot EVERY time? That's the difference in black and white. Besides being faster, sharper, and more sensitive to the light, BW cameras are also CHEAPER.

And cameras that are wireless? ANY camera that is wired can be wireless, and vice versa. The "wireless" part means that the video cable connects to a transmitter. If you have a wired camera, you can ALWAYS make it wireless. The only problem is that doing so is kind of a major pain in the ass. For a wireless camera, you're going to need more power supplies, more connections, and more space.

Anyways, as far as wireless transmitting goes in the shoecams? You basically have to find a way to make the camera, the transmitter, the transmitter power supply, and the camera power supply fit in your shoe. Then, you'll have to make space on your person, or wherever your reciever is for the reciever, the recorder, and the power supply for the reciever.

See, if you keep it wired. you keep it simpler. You can run the wires to your DVR, along with them the wires to your power supply for the camera.

I know that in my setup, I simply have my PVR, and the camera's battery assembly in my pocket, I run the wires down my leg, and the camera is in my shoe. Very simple, takes me about 4 minutes to setup, and test, and then I'm ready to go out and shoot. The battery life is about 8 hours for the camera, and 4 for the PVR. However, I don't turn either of them on unless I'm going to shoot.

turi
January 20th, 2006, 02:50 PM
@rd313
which pvr have you,that 3 h to record??I have the mustek PVR H140 and can not 1 h to record with this!! :( please repost

makavelithedon
January 21st, 2006, 12:32 AM
Yeah, your'e right. Thanks man. I just get worried about being screwed over shopping online. But it is probably safer to find a reputable shop online than to go into a store in town.

I'm not sure where, but I thought I read that cameras with housing had something to do with lighting. Oh well. It doesn't really make much difference to me. In fact, housing does actually make the camera bigger which is usually not good.

And everytime I have tried an indoor uppie, it has sucked. Even with a digital camera where the camera was right up there. Lighting is everything. Do you know what the deal is with a camera like this: http://www.surveillance-spy-cameras.com/color-board-camera.htm#1 ? If you click on the "sample" link, it looks like it makes hi-quality vids in both dark and light. I guess I'm not too familar with the IR filter.

I totally agree that for uppies, wired cam is 100% the way to go. I'm interested in using it for uppies AND for possibly hidden "operations" around the house. I was just wondering if I could accomplish both of these goals with one cam. While wired cams are ideal for uppies, wireless are great for around the house where it would be hard to hide a wired cam somewhere. At least in the places that I would want to hide it. I guess I could just get two cams, one wired for uppies, and one wireless for at home use.

I did find it interesting that the cam I got in Hong Kong has the video output wires PLUS a transmitter. It is sweet in that it can be used for both. In fact, I saw other ones like this on ebay, but not really on the spycamera websites.

Anyways, I will shortly have two wired/wireless pinhole cams. I just need the camcorder or pvr. thanks for all your help man

puregoldxxxx
January 22nd, 2006, 04:10 PM
Well, CK, for an excellent pinhole cam with quality close to a hi8 and above, i got the tv-hdp1 from eyespy video (it's the new version of tv-cphr, it has a resolution of 530! i'm just in the process of getting about 20 rechargable batteries, 10 for the cam and ten for the receiver...as for the recorder, i use my 3CCD miniDV sony cam which has broadcast quality video...DCR-HC1000... trust me it's worth it to invest in ti when you see the video! you'll think it was shot by the local tv station!!!

CaprisPleaze
January 22nd, 2006, 09:30 PM
RD313,

Thanx man. I rhink I'll call the spycameras place since they won't answer my emails.

I'm still a little spooked about bringing my miniDV camera into a store. I mean, while I'm recording. I'm thinking about just turning on my miniDV camera, putting it into my coat pocket, and walk into a couple of stores and see if an alarm sounds. That way, if an alarm does go off, I'll already have an excuse made up to tell whoever. As long as 'they' don't have any proof of me filming, i'm cool. The reason I'll have it on instead of off is that if they DO have a detector, it picks up on a certain frequency that the camera gives off while it's on, and it won't when it's off.

So, if nothing goes off, well then.....woohoo! Ima be capturing some ass, and I'll sure let you guys see it ;)

Thanx again RD313...

Remember that post?

Welp, I just came back from a couple of major department stores. I turned my camera on just before I went in so I could see if an alarm would go off at the theft detection entrance.

I went into them all, and NO ALARM, no noise, no nothin'. :D

There's my green light. Now I'll get my sony pinhole cam. I waited because it would've been worthless to buy the cam and then I get stopped every time at the entrances.

I'm going to wait till this upcoming Friday, and I'll probably order it then. I'm guessing I'll get it within one to two weeks. Then I'll practice on setting it up so I can wear it. And then it's action time.

And I'll be sure to post my footage for you guyz. :)

BTW, now that I think about it. Most regular stores probably wouldn't have had something that could detect a camera coming in anyway, atleast not WIRED. Because all the noise, cell phones, and electronic equipment in those stores would probably set it off all the time, rendering it useless.

I don't know what exact frequency those camera detectors try to pick up on, but it's probably not a frequency that would be unique in most department stores. Meaning that the camera probably wouldn't be the only thing giving off that frequency.

Anyways, I still may have a few more questions here and there, but I think I'm good for now.

Thanx SO much RD313. And thanx to everyone else who gave input.

PEACE :gc

makavelithedon
January 22nd, 2006, 10:19 PM
Good luck Capris! Let us know which pinhole you purchase as well. And if you really feel nice, you can let me know which camcorder you have so that I don't have to dig through this whole thread to find it! Thanks!! :)

homersimpson
January 22nd, 2006, 10:53 PM
Good luck Capris! Let us know which pinhole you purchase as well. And if you really feel nice, you can let me know which camcorder you have so that I don't have to dig through this whole thread to find it! Thanks!! :)


Yeah, please do that.

RD313
January 24th, 2006, 12:51 AM
wait, didn't I say that there was little to no chance of your camera setting off the detectors?

Anyways, if something sets off the detectors, it should be the camera because there's a chance that it might emit RF, and it'll definitely send off signals if it's wireless.

Anyways, best of luck, hopefully your captures will be better than mine.

Recently, a wire snapped in my assembly, luckily I have another one just in case, but I'm down from the three that I had down to one. After this next one snaps, I'm going to have to begin either resoldering them, or reordering them!

Anyways, my best to all you guys :)

CaprisPleaze
January 24th, 2006, 02:16 AM
wait, didn't I say that there was little to no chance of your camera setting off the detectors?

Anyways, if something sets off the detectors, it should be the camera because there's a chance that it might emit RF, and it'll definitely send off signals if it's wireless.

Anyways, best of luck, hopefully your captures will be better than mine.

Recently, a wire snapped in my assembly, luckily I have another one just in case, but I'm down from the three that I had down to one. After this next one snaps, I'm going to have to begin either resoldering them, or reordering them!

Anyways, my best to all you guys :)

Yeah, I know you told me.

I just wanted to know FOR SURE before I spent the money for a pinhole camera. ;)

And nah, it won't be wireless. So it shouldn't be giving off any RF.

Btw, I'm using my Canon ZR200 for the recording, for those who wanted to know.

I'm anxious to get my Sony pinhole cam and start hunting. And when I order it, and then finally get some footage, I'll be posting quite a bit of it.

I hope I won't let you guys down.

Again, thanx for the help RD313 and others :vfu

CaprisPleaze
January 27th, 2006, 11:48 PM
Well, CK, for an excellent pinhole cam with quality close to a hi8 and above, i got the tv-hdp1 from eyespy video (it's the new version of tv-cphr, it has a resolution of 530! i'm just in the process of getting about 20 rechargable batteries, 10 for the cam and ten for the receiver...as for the recorder, i use my 3CCD miniDV sony cam which has broadcast quality video...DCR-HC1000... trust me it's worth it to invest in ti when you see the video! you'll think it was shot by the local tv station!!!


Hey puregoldxxxx,

I'm trying to decide which pinhole camera to buy, and 2 of my choices come from the same place you bought yours at.

They are the one that you say you have and the Sony CC-1XP. The CC-1XP SEEMS like it would be better for body worn situations because of the wires coming out of the bottom, BUT.....

Could you explain to me how your using yours?

Are you wearing it or placing it somewhere?

It kinda sounds like you're placing it somewhere since you have a receiver. But either way, please lemme know how you have it setup.

Thanx man :)

puregoldxxxx
January 31st, 2006, 08:07 PM
I would never wear a pinhole cam, hence degrading the quality of the video compared to miniDV for example, unless i dressed like a women and went to the women's locker room!!! haha...pin hole cams are meant to be hidden and left somewhere...why would you use a pinhole cam to film upskirts for example? just get a small miniDV and hide it in a creative way.

RD313
February 1st, 2006, 01:47 AM
Because a pinhole is far more versatile than a miniDV camera. Unless you shell out big bucks for the ultra-small ones (which are still fairly bulky) the best hope you can have is using it as a handcam.

Seriously, that's the whole point of pinholes. They're by far the most versatile than any other kind of camera out there. The recording quality is also fairly good, seeing as many WILL transmit in D1 resolution, or at the very least at 380 lines.

Seriously, most dv cameras will not do above D1. It's really not the pinhole cameras..... it's the issue of the recorders.

There really isn't too big a difference in quality, seeing as the CCDs are actually comparable to the ones used in the full-sized cameras. No kidding, that's why I always recommend Sony pinholes. Sony uses the same Super HAD and EX-View CCDs in all of their applications. They sell the cameras wholesale to people, who then use them to make board-level cameras. In essence, you're getting a stripped down version of the same thing. It's less features, but you're still getting the same quality.

The real issue is recording. You know why miniDV looks better, ALWAYS? It's because miniDV has a fixed bitrate of 30Mbps. Even the best portable recorders can only get a recording bitrate of 3Mbps.

Later on this year, Neuros will introduce "The Recorder III" it's going to record MPEG-4 and MPEG-2 video at D1 resolution, at 30 frames per second. No one knows the bitrate yet... also, all of their existing recorders will get an update. It's going to launch for an MSRP of $300, and it's slated for release Q3 this year.

Oh, I forgot to mention, D1 resolution is known also television broadcast resolution. It's 480 TV lines. The computer resolution for it is 720x576. This is also the resolution used by most DVDs.

So, yeah, the age of DVD-quality recording is coming. Until miniDV becomes smaller, and cheaper, or until other PVRs can record at higher bitrates, the people using pinholes are going to be fairly in the dark.

However, covert pinhole cammers have a LOT to look forward to. I've seen 1/2" and 1/3" Sony board level cameras that record 600 TV lines, can shoot at .0003 lux with little to no noise going for a little over $100.

I mean, come on, you can't beat something like that. It seems that the bane of all of us is having a decent recorder! Oh well, hopefully demand for video recording will come up in the future.

lestaspur
February 1st, 2006, 11:11 AM
Ok...I've read every page of this thread and am trying to piece things together. My camera knowledge is patchy at best and I know nothing about pin-holes, so bear with me through the following queries.

Firstly, I would like a good quality pin-hole which can be hidden in the home and can also be used for ups - for ups I would use my mini-dv camcorder (Panasonic) to record. I'm a bit confused by this whole wired v wireless thing, but I understand that one would be better for ups whilst the other is better for home use. If I could get ONE that does both well, that would be ideal (I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra). Failing that, I would also be willing to buy two reasonably priced ones for each use. My main concern is quality. I want something that will capture as close to my camcorder as possible (preferably in colour).

My next query is about low light shooting. What specifications should I be looking out for in order to capture in near complete darkness - the only light source being natural moonlight? I understand that b&w is best for this and that's fine with me, but it would be cool if I could use one of the pinholes above, rather than buying a third which might be a bit unrealistic cost wise.

Ok, if your still reading...my last query. It was mentioned in an earlier post that going along to a spy shop is not a good idea, and the reasons given make sense. But my question is whether online stores are much safer? Surely these guys will have the same links to law enforcement agencies as the other guys, and on top of that, they will now have my credit card details and home address. As you can tell, i'm vary wary about this so just need some reassurance really. Does anybody know of reliable, safe and discreet retailers who ship oversees?

Thanks.

lestaspur
February 1st, 2006, 12:53 PM
Sorry, some more questions:

-When looking at resolution which is better, a higher number (eg 600 TV lines) or a lower one (like 380 TV lines)?

-Again, when looking at lux rating is a higher number better than a lower one - 0.5 or 0.1 or 0.003?

-With CCD, what does 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 actually mean and does this in anyway compensate for a crappy lux rating?

-With the camera lens, I take it a bigger lens improves the picture quality? So is there much difference between 3.8mm and a 4.3mm, and if so, is the bigger lens significantly bigger in real terms - i.e. does it look much bigger?

-What is the difference between a board cam and a non-board cam?

-And finally, looking at some websites offering pinhole cams, some say that items sent to you include the lens, a cable and a power adaptor; how bulky is the power adaptor - can I just use my mini-dv camera instead?

Cheers.

RD313
February 1st, 2006, 08:18 PM
1.) Higher resolution is ALWAYS better.
2.) Lower lux is ALWAYS better. However, lux doesn't mean much if you're getting a COLOR camera. If you're going to go the colored route, then go for a GOOD camera. For color cameras, I highly recommend Sony Super HAD cameras. If you're going the black and white route, I recommend getting the (far superior) sony Super HAD cameras with ExView. Exview cameras can see in half the light that the other Sony cameras need. However, these cameras are all black and white. I'm actually getting myself one sometime this week. Besides simply being better in terms of performance (auto gain control, backlight compensation, higher resolutions, faster light adjusting, all of which color cameras don't have) they are also generally cheaper.

I paid about $15 more for the color cameras I'm using right now. I thought they were awesome at first, but they pale in comparison to the quality and performance of the Sony cameras with ExView.

Let me give an example by citing what I'm buying. It's a Sony ExView 1/3" CCD board camera, with a 4.3 super conical lens, with housing, about 30mm cubed, 600TV lines of resolution (better than DVD quality) , black and white, and has a lux rating of .0003 (more sensitive than the human eye). It has auto gain control, backlight compensation (both of which make sure that the subject is not overexposed due to light... great for uppies) the camera produces little to no noise and is IR sensitive.

This is quite possibly the best camera that any shoecammer could ever want. All of this package (with some added accessories) for only $102.00 + shipping.

However..... if you're going to be outdoors, in the sun, shooting things that AREN'T dark (everything but uppies) and color is important to you, then the probably want a color camera. I highly recommend Sony cameras, simply from experience.

3.) CCD is the sensor used to capture the shots. The 1/2", 1/3" and 1/4" refer to the size of the CCD. The bigger the CCD, the better. 1/2" CCDs are hard to come by and expensive. More often than not, you'll be looking at 1/3" CCDs.

4.) Yes, the bigger the lens, the better the picture quality. Also, the flat, conical and super conical usually have a lot to do with the camera's field of view. Flat pinholes typically have the largest field of view (Anywhere from an ultra-wide fisheye, to 90 degrees). Conical pinhole cameras have a smaller field of view (usually less than 90 degrees), and super conical pinholes have the smallest field of view (typically, less than 80 degrees, which is good for shoecammers, less focus on everything else, and just straight up at your subject)

5.) "Board level" cameras are usually just the cameras that are mounted on a PC board. They usually don't have any sort of protection, but that's actually quite all right if you're going to have the camera covered. They're small (a little bigger than the size of a quarter) They're the bare minimum, and great for body worn applications. You can also get them with housing if you wish.

6.) Depends on what kind of adapter you're talking about. If you're talking about the kind that plug into a wall and convert your current into 12V DC for the camera, size always varies. More often than not, the "power adapter" is just a battery holder than holds 8 AA batteries. You can build one yourself for about $6 if you buy the stuff from radio shack. I actually bought a 9.6V rechargeable battery and rigged it to power my camera, the thing lasts for hours, and thanks to an on/off switch, I can turn the camera on and off at the push of a button. That cost me $30 to build, and about an hour to construct. I've had to recharge it ONCE since I built it last november.

If you guys ever need help with any kind of power supply, ask me, I can write a guide if needed.

As for bulk, take 8AA batteries and stack them 2 batteries tall by 4 batteries across, that's how wide most of these power adapters are. My adapter is 4 batteries across by 2 batteries vertically. It's fairly long, and pretty thin.

If you use a small DVR, and a battery, in the same pocket, it'll be about as bulky as the smallest miniDV cameras out on the market.

I Hope that helped.

mord
February 1st, 2006, 09:42 PM
good post RD313.

Couple things to add.

1. resolution when your talking lines like 480, 600 is talking about analog TV screens in wich there are actual lines drawn on the screen from side to side. the more lines the finer detail you can make out on the screen. regular TV is 480 lines (not gonna go into interlacing) and HDTV is 720 to 1080 lines. so regular old TV has 480 distinct lines from top to bottom of the screen.
computer screens use individual dots (pixils) instead of lines so thier resolution has 2 numbers like 1024x768 showing horizontal by vertical.

the broader definition of resolution is beeing able to disern the difference in fine details like hairs on someones head. can you see individual hairs or is it just a blurry mess.

2. for power on a board cam I suggest nicad or nimh rechargeables. Cheap RC car batteries are a good source, or have a pack made go for 9.6-10.8 volts and at least 600mah. The mah rating indicates your run time. Almost all board cams run on 9-12 volts. I have tested a few at 9, 10.8, and 12 volts. only dif I can tell is thet run hotter and die faster the more voltage you put in. I could see no dif in performace.

lestaspur
February 2nd, 2006, 01:38 PM
Thanks for the reply guys. Now have plenty to think about.

jonblue
February 3rd, 2006, 01:03 AM
3.) Neuros Recorder II : A fairly newer recorder, records MPEG-4 at 640x480 @ 30FPS, however, it's bitrate is only 2MBps. I've seen demo videos of this. While it would take great video at 320x240 (2Mpbs for 320x240 is pretty damn good) it's videos of 640x480 are fairly lacking. This one can be found for under $150


My bro has the neuros recorder I. the recorder doesn't come with a battery so you would have to have an external battery connected to it. Which would add bulk to the portability.

RD313
February 3rd, 2006, 01:01 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend the Neuros Recorder I (in any form or update) to anyone. I've seen sample vids from it, and the recording quality is acking. I'm just saying that the first recorder is kind of obsolete.

As I've said before, the new Neuros recorder is going to be fairly decent. The Neuros Recorder III is supposed to have some badass specs. However, the price is going to be kind of high ($300 MSRP at the lowest)

capture2
February 4th, 2006, 01:09 AM
RD313 Can you show us your shoe cam ? how is it appearing

RD313
February 4th, 2006, 02:50 AM
I considered showing you guys a picture of my setup..... but I've decided to retract. If I were ever caught, or if someone or group were ever tracking me, they might be able to link me to this website, and that's something I'd rather not do... especially since I've been taking some riskier shots lately.

Instead, I'll just describe what I'm using.....

Camera : Sony SuperHAD 1/3" CCD board camera. It's a dual-mode camera. It's a color camera that switches to black and white when under 10 lux. It records 380TV lines.

Recorder : Mustek PVR-A1. Records 320x240 @ 30FPS MPEG4 video wrapped in ASF. It has a bitrate of only 1.5Mbps :(

Power : A 9.6V rechargeable battery I bought at radio shack for $20 (with the charger). My power setup was probably the hardest thing I had to do. I bought a set of connectors specifically made for the battery (it's an RC car battery) and I lobbed the ends off of that so that I could keep the original battery assembly intact, so that I could charge it, and also so that I could connect alternative powering methods if that battery ever fails (I have an 8AA battery holder that I keep near me when using the cam, just in the case that I need it).

Anyways, I connected that piece to a simply pushbutton switch which will break the connection when not on. This is so I could turn the camera off and on at will (to conserve battery life, and to preserve the camera)

So, basically, it's a battery, a cable connected to the pushbutton switch, and that soldered to the wire which ends up at my cam. My cam's video cable assembly is in soldered to THIS wire.

So, basically, I have an 8 hour battery, which only turns on when I want it, and it only cost me about $25 to make.

Rig : I keep the camera in the shoe (obviously). Since the board camera's power assembly stick out directly from the bottom, I have to be careful as to how I bend it. I don't run the wire UNDER my foot and walk on it, I used to do that, and it killed the wire. Instead, I have the wire travel OVER my foot. This works better, but it bends the wire at the assembly, so, I've been killing these wires a lot as well.

Most of the time I spend fixing the camera is spent replacing those wires..... and they're not easy to replace. Currently, I'm out of commission, since I've run out of these assemblies, and I can't repair the ones I have.

I'd like it very much if someone could recommend a way that I could solder something with needle-point precision. Does anyone know where I can get a soldering tip that's as thin as a needle?

In any case, I have the wires run out of the shoe, and directly onto my extension cable. I used to have a connection here, a 1/8" audio connection jack, but that caused problems, so I decided to just SOLDER the entire thing together. The original idea was that it would allow me to remove the shoe, without having to take out the camera.

That cable is tucked into my sock (to keep that part of the wire from the shoe to the leg to keep from flopping around, since I've had the wires slip out a few times) The wire is then pulled up my leg, and into my pocket through a hole. All of the excess wire sits in this pocket, it's actually ziptied, and I use it to plug up the hole in the pants. This is to make sure the wires stay taut (just enough so that they don't flop around) and to keep anything from falling out (I've had some stuff fall out of this pocket embarassingly)

The wire is then connected to the PVR and the battery which sits in that pocket. The PVR is easily operated, it's somewhat of a hassle, and isn't as fast as I'd like it, however, the battery is a LOT more easy to operate, a simple CLICK and I know it's on.

I'm going to get another camera. This one seems to be made almost exclusively for nothing more than upskirts. It's a BW camera, 600TV lines, Sony ExView 1/3" CCD, it can see in .0003 lux and it was actually cheaper than my other camera.

A setup like the one I described above is fairly cheap. Once I get this new camera, I'll post some vids, and show you guys how decent it really is.

Prices (in USD)
The camera : $100 + shipping
The PVR : less than $100
Flash Memory for the PVR : Less than $50 for 1GB SD card
The Battery : $20
All the wiring, misc. : $15

It ends up being cheaper than a miniDV camera, and is completely portable.

I'd rather not go into the pros and cons of shoecams. If you want one, there are more cons than pros ANYWAYS, even if recording quality is shit compared to miniDV.

capture2
February 4th, 2006, 04:54 AM
its a nice recorder http://reviews.designtechnica.com/firstlook52.html
RD313 what do you think about this recorder?

jonblue
February 4th, 2006, 05:00 AM
thanks for all the tips rd

jonblue
February 4th, 2006, 05:13 AM
rd313 do you use a camera housing for your setup?

homersimpson
February 5th, 2006, 12:21 AM
rd313, what site did you buy your cam from? Was it a US site? Hows the quality?

RD313
February 5th, 2006, 01:29 AM
@capture2 : No.. I wouldn't recommend that PVR..... It's not really something you can carry around... that's a 7" screen on that thing! Not only that, but good luck finding it at all anywhere but Taiwan, oh, and don't forget the ultra-high price (around $500 USD) Finally, it records in an unusual resolution of 700something x 240, at an unknown bitrate. Well, unknown to me, anyways, I could barely find ANY info at all on that thing.

@jonblue : No, I do not use housing on my camera. There are merits to both having it and not having it. I would suggest getting housing if you can FIT it into your setup. I ordered housing on my next camera, and I'll see how that works out in my shoecam. The only problem is that I won't be as easily able to convert my camera to my sleevecam setup. Also, ever since I heard of the headcam idea, I've been thinking a lot about trying to set one of those up. Pinhole/board cameras are awesome, they can be used for EVERYTHING (almost). As for my current setup, I do not use housing due to space. However, my shoecam stresses out my setup's pigtail connection (the part that connects from the back of the camera, to the rest of my connection)

@homersimpson : I've bought stuff from spycameras.com on numerous occasions. They've always given me pretty good service, and their prices are.... decent.

You guys should know, the majority of websites out there are carrying outdated stock, with outrageous prices. It's such a niche market that a lot of businesses can afford to name their own prices and not worry about loss of profit.

I would highly suggest staying away from sites that offer installation services. A lot of websites have physical stores, offer surveillance services, and THEN run some supplies through the internet. What you want to look for are places that are primarily warehouses.

I've bought from www.spytown.com on one occasion. The shipping is priced high... their customer service lacks a little bit, they're uncommunicative at times (according to reviewers) , however, their prices are ultra low, and their selection is massively high.

A lot of people whine about this site, but from my own experience, I found them to be a little slow with the orders, and being on opposing ends of the country doesn't help much for shipping.

However, it's hard to recommend these sites to anyone else but those who live in the USA. For all you guys in Europe, sorry, but I can't really say much about that side of the Atlantic.

As for SpyCameras.com, their prices are generally lower than most others, but not as low as SpyTown.com, their service is excellent, but their selection is limited, and their merchandise is slowly becoming obsolete. They lower their prices on their stuff from time to time, and they get some new stuff every so often.... but their prices are the only things I don't like.

Let me give an example, SpyTown.com and SpyCameras.com offer a very similar camera. I really do think they're identical, Sony BW 1/3" CCD 600 TV line camera..... getting exact details from SpyTown was kind of difficult. However, everything they list is identical, down to the same lens! SpyCameras.com has it for $329 + shipping. I got it from SpyTown for $102 + shipping. Big difference, no?

capture2
February 5th, 2006, 10:39 AM
thanks RD

puregoldxxxx
February 13th, 2006, 02:06 PM
Hello (RD313)! (or anyone who knows) do you know any ideas "in what" to hide a pinhole cam along with it's batteries and transmitter? ex: in the bathroom...if your anwer is a trash can how do you do it, more importantly how do you hide all that extra stuff like the power supply and the transmitter... what kind of "tape" would you use?? any creative ideas ladies and gentlemen? how risky it is to just put the whole thing in a black plastic back laying on the floor?? if you want you can write me at my y ahoo..same screen name as here ...THANX a BUNCH!!!

RD313
February 13th, 2006, 09:20 PM
If you have a transmitter/reciever, then this is NO problem!

Take a bathroom item that's large enough to hold whatever it is you want to hold in it... a clock, a radio, or something...

I would recommend a small radio : they're cheap as hell, small, portable, and a reasonable object that you can put in a bathroom.

Whatever you decide to use, what you can do is simply open up the item you bought, take out the stuff on the inside, and replace it with your camera. Simply mount the camera to a dark spot on the item, and leave it there. Make sure that you can easily turn it on to record and transmit whenever you need to.

Pinholes are OBVIOUSLY the way to go about this. Just make sure that your camera won't release any glint when you look directly at it. When you're on the can, most people just look at the smallest things in the room, and something like that would totally stand out.

OR......
Another thing you can do........
If you have the money, is to just BUY a premade camera like this.

http://www.spycameras.com has an awesome assortment of these kind of cameras, they make them themselves, and they use decent quality cameras. If you live in the US, then this is a GREAT place to order from!

Their prices may be a little high... but their service is pretty good.

Even if you decide not to buy from them, what you want to do is not all that hard to make. You simply buy a camera, a transmitter, a reciever, and buy or build your own power supply for those things. You take apart a radio and put it behind a speaker, or in a tape assembly, or SOMEWHERE.

You can buy a switch and simply solder one into the back for when you want it on or off.

puregoldxxxx
February 14th, 2006, 02:37 PM
Thanx RD!!! :) i forgot to mention a couple of things. The bathroom would be a public bathroom or a bathroom in a publlc place. Any ideas "where" to hide? and how? (the radio will not work because it will be stolen!lol
Also, i already do have a 530 res. sont pinhole cam with a transmitter and receiver. just need some batteries! lol i got them from eyespyvideo.com. Rechargable batteries are 1.2 V. so i will need 10 of them to power the cam and transmitter since they're are 12V. Anything else instead of the batteries would work? i need "regulated" 12V so i don't know if anyting else would work. I also would need another 10 ones for the receiver. The recorder is my miniDV cam. Thanx a bunch!
i'm from the US but work in europe.

RD313
February 14th, 2006, 08:20 PM
... In a public bathroom? I have absolutely no clue.

Actually, I'm not even going to think of that one.
I just wouldn't even bother recommending you trying something like that unless this is a place that you own, or a place that you have godlike access to.

Seriously..... don't do it.
Unless you can mount the camera in the ceiling or something, just.. don't do it.

Way too many people have been caught doing similar things, and well, you'd just get busted.... hard.

If someone doesn't catch you setting up or retrieving the setup, then someone will catch the camera. Not just your subjects, but any cleaning crews. Also, if you're doing this in a public place, you'd have to make sure absolutely no one, including security, sees you go at it.

This is just too risky.
I would strongly recommend NOT doing this.

In your bathroom, yeah, this would be a great idea. Because you can always have an easy place to put stuff..... but in a public restroom... it just doesn't seem feasible.

Such a shame, to have such great tools (I can't afford a miniDV camera..... or anything better than this crappy Mustek recorder that I have) but not to be able to use them.
===================

As to your power problems, figure out how much voltage the reciever needs. Believe it or not, Sony pinhole cameras can take anywhere from 9 to 24 volts (okay, 24 is an exaggeration, the camera will probably burn out after a while, but I got it running on a 24V line, as a test) and they will operate perfectly fine. I think a lot of transmitters will also work at this range. Try it out, take a 9V battery, buy a battery clip for it, and see if that will power your camera and transmitter.

Seriously, a single 9V battery will power your cam for about 20 minutes.

If you're able to, you can always use a regulated line (a wall-wart) that will plug into the wall and convert it to 12V DC.

I bought a rechargeable 9.6V battery (it was basically 8 1.2V cells connected in serial) from Radio Shack here in the USA. It was for a remote controlled car. A lot of toystores carry batteries like that, for cheap. I got mine for $20 USD, with the charger.

Basically, I took it, bought an extra clip, solder the rest of my assembly to this clip, and clip this to the untouched battery (I left the original battery unmodified, so I could charge it)

Batteries are the best way for wireless setup. If you can find batteries similar to the ones I'm talking about, it'll save you work, money, and time.

If you absolutely need to use 12V (very possible, I don't know your setup) then you can look for a 9.6V battery like I'm talking about, and simply add in two more cells of your own :)

Avoid Ni-Cd batteries. Go for Ni-MH batteries. They last longer, charge faster, don't have memory effects, and keep a constant voltage all the way up to their death.

I'll say this, if you can wire your setup, do so, it saves a lot of work. If you need to go wireless, you may find yourself spending a lot of money and time on batteries. Again, I don't recommend leaving a camera in ANY public place (dressing room/bathrooms), and I'm sure you're going to get awesome results with your good Sony cam and miniDV recorder.

By the way, what kind of camera are you using?

MichiK
February 21st, 2006, 06:13 AM
Hello,

What kind of Input does my Camcorder need to connect it with a PinholeCam?

thx

homersimpson
February 21st, 2006, 10:16 PM
Hello,

What kind of Input does my Camcorder need to connect it with a PinholeCam?

thx


A/V IN

RD313
February 21st, 2006, 10:57 PM
Composite video in, A/V in, AV in, RCA inputs, it's all the same name.

Basically, so long as it takes any kind of video input, whether it be rca or not, and can record from an external source, then your camera can use a pinhole camera.

lestaspur
February 22nd, 2006, 04:16 PM
Does the zoom function on a vid cam still work with a ph?

RD313
February 22nd, 2006, 11:07 PM
No, no zoom on pinholes, unless the there are pinholes that are also zoom lenses.

It's possible that your camera could still do digital zoom, but that'd be fairly worthless.

lestaspur
February 23rd, 2006, 04:09 AM
hmmm...what about the PI attachment, can you use zoom with that?

mammariecammery
February 23rd, 2006, 09:02 AM
No, no zoom on pinholes, unless the there are pinholes that are also zoom lenses.
my pinhole cam has zoom capabilities, it has a lil circular disc you can turn left/right to zoom in/out..... ;)

puregoldxxxx
March 1st, 2006, 10:45 AM
I have a color high density Sony SuperHAD 1/3" DSP CCD 3.7 mm pinhole lense high resolution 530 tv lines. and it has a 3x zoom.

Dreamer
March 8th, 2006, 08:29 AM
I have a general question, i have a panasonic GS35. What kind of pinhole would i need and where could i get it? What do you think about a setup in a womens purse?? My girlfriend might be willing to help if it is very concealed. Thanks for any help.

homersimpson
March 9th, 2006, 12:03 AM
Any pinhole cam will do as long as you have the inputs on your camcorder. And if your girlfriend is willing to do that let me borrow her for about a week. Holy Crap you got it made if she will help you with the set up.

slr_sniper
March 9th, 2006, 02:15 AM
Hey I've got a situation on my hands and figured this might be the place to turn for some help.

My girlfriend's roommate is drop dead gorgeous. Beautiful face, long brown hair, real conservative/religeous type with (of course!) big tits, nice body... the whole package. Anyways, I was caught by their neighbour trying to get a glimpse of the r/m dressing for work through her window, so now I've decided to go high-tech.

I want an easily insertable covert camera to record the r/m either in her room or in the bathroom -- or both. The best thing I can think of is a concealed cam in a Barbasol can. Anyone tried one before? They're like $250 on eBay so I want to check around first. Also, there's a small possibility that I could use a pinhole in an air duct/grate, but I'd rather 'hide in plain sight,' if you know what I mean.

I don't think a fire alarm would work without arrousing suspicions, either. And a wall clock cam would not work as it would be out of place in the bathroom and too ugly/suspicious for her bedroom. (hey, my g/f's r/m, how about a free alarm/wall clock/teddy bear gift basket?)

The best would be a low-lux motion cam in an alarm clock, but good luck inserting/presenting that innocently...

Of equal importance is the receiver. I want a digital recorder so it makes no noise - I have to stash this somewhere in the g/f's room, so it can't exactly be a VCR that nees a plug-in and tapes... God, I shudder to think of the noise it would make. Of course, the best-case-scenario would include a receiver that had a monitor and/or multiple inputs (like 3 or 4).

Any suggestions?

Oh, I saw a backpack with a pinhole cam before, that'd be okay because I could just leave it in the bathroom to record while I'm there. But it's real expensive, and I can leave a Barbasol can there while I'm not...

toxik
March 10th, 2006, 03:58 PM
Im trying to record form my pinhole to a PVR-A1 and the image comes out pixilated. yet wehn it is not recording. the image is very clear. Is the cam too much for the PVR to handel?

0ne5hot
March 10th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I want an easily insertable covert camera to record the r/m either in her room or in the bathroom -- or both. The best thing I can think of is a concealed cam in a Barbasol can. Anyone tried one before? They're like $250 on eBay so I want to check around first. Also, there's a small possibility that I could use a pinhole in an air duct/grate, but I'd rather 'hide in plain sight,' if you know what I mean..

New here, but firstly i'd say that if you introduce an item into their house containing a hidden camera, if it is ever discovered by anyone, it will be pretty obvious that you put it there to spy on them and you could run into some serious problems.

I'd say if you are going to really do this as best you can, some sort of fixed camera (e.g. in an extractor fan, ventilation recess e.t.c.) will be far less likely to be seen (or thrown away by mistake for that matter) whilst it will also not advertise who put it there like the Barbasol can would. If you had access to the house for a while, you could install it pretty much anywhere (and possibly even run it from a nearby power cable to save you ever having to replace the batteries). If you could be more detailed about the locations and the sort of footage you want then I could be more specific in coming up with an idea.

Oh, and bravo for seizing an opportunity when it comes your way.

slr_sniper
March 15th, 2006, 02:31 AM
As long as the shaving cream comes out, I'd say it would work. After all, I've got my toothbrush there anyways.

I'm also concerned about the cam being noticed if I were to put it in a vent or fan or screw or something...

Any ideas?

What about her bedroom?

0ne5hot
March 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM
If you really want to get it in her bedroom then your best bet would be incorporating it into something that's already in there.

It all depends on if you could get access for a few minutes.

If you're really serious about it you could pretty easily buy an identical version of something cheap & electrical in her room (e.g. alarm clock, radio, speakers) put a cam & wireless transmitter in it (theres always small holes in these things already) and split the power supply to power the cam. Then just swap it over with the original whenever you get the chance and bingo!

As long as no-one sees you, you'll probably be in the clear even if the cam is spotted.

mosDJ
March 16th, 2006, 01:36 PM
split the power supply to power the cam

Sounds easy but is it? Would you not fry the camera? which wires to use etc?

slr_sniper
March 17th, 2006, 01:18 AM
I can get whatever access I need, as I can get my own copy from the g/f.

I'd do my thing(s) while they're both at work.

I'll try and get photos of the bathroom this weekend.

0ne5hot
March 19th, 2006, 08:10 PM
Sounds easy but is it? Would you not fry the camera? which wires to use etc?


Most cams use 6-12v but can handle around 20 with no real damage.

The easiest thing to do would be to find an electrical item that already has a step-down transformer (roughly the right voltage) built in and then split the power after that point to supply the camera. If not, just hook up a transformer yourself. None of it's particularly hard to do and you can get everything you need for almost nothing at an electronics store.

If you dont know how to do this you could just use a 9 volt square battery but eventually you'll have to disturb the setup to change it.

mosDJ
March 20th, 2006, 09:37 AM
If you dont know how to do this you could just use a 9 volt square battery but eventually you'll have to disturb the setup to change it.

This is what I am trying right now, but the 9v only last about 4-6 hours...

0ne5hot
March 21st, 2006, 08:43 AM
Mos, where is the cam? (or where are you planning to put it). Is it anywhere near a mains supply or a wall socket? - if so it's just a simple case of getting a v.cheap plug that converts the power supply in your country (i'm guessing between 110v and 240v) into 9v or thereabouts, and connecting it to the camera.

The reason I suggested hiding it inside the casing of an electrical item is so it can be supplied with power without any obvious wires (if the video is transmitted wirelessly). Most electronic stuff runs of a voltage that should be safe for your camera (look for the tell-tale chunky plugs and ac adaptors with the output written on them) - after that it is simply a matter of splitting the power-wires (after the voltage has been stepped down), re-attaching one set to the item and the other set to your camera.

If you don't know how to do this, ask at an electronics store and they should be able to sell you what you need.

RD313
March 23rd, 2006, 08:16 PM
I actually wrote out a long detailed post, but then I realized something :
1.) You won't be able to use a motion-detection system that's inconspicuous.
Good luck finding a motion detector that you'll be able to hide.
2.) You'd have to get a digital recorder (or two that are identical) with a massive hard drive in order to do what you want to do.
3.) In order to get the kind of system you wanted, you'd probably have to build most of it yourself. They don't sell the majority of the things you need premade.
4.) Most importantly..... pinhole cameras have a working life of less than 100 hours. Even if you left a camera permanently in an existing clock (and that in itself would be a massive pain in the ass) it would only work for less than a week before it burned out.

I really don't recommend what you're trying to do..... the obvious fact is that if you're caught this will DEFINITELY get you some jail time, and might make you have to register as a sex offender (which means good-bye job, community respect, and hope for the future). Also, the cost of the supplies you'll need in order to get the shot could reach the thousand dollar mark. There's an insane amount of work involved in all of this, and a lot of time you'll need to spend maintaining your rig, and just REVIEWING your footage.

Finally, havn't you already been caught for this kind of stuff? From the same room you're planning to record in? Two in a row from the same place is risky.

I don't know, in the end, it'll all be up to you.

Emilio
March 24th, 2006, 02:04 AM
I`m sorry... after reading through this thread I`m still confused about pinhole cameras and all the setup. For example: I don`t understand what it means "lux something" or "tv lines". I mean, numbers doesn`t give any idea what are you talking about.

I`ve been trying to create my own setup but as long as I get in, the more doubts I get. I`m trying to get my V-ZCAM4 from spytown but they don`t answer any emails, and I don`t want to spend my money for nothing.

Before I order my V-ZCAM4 I`d like to know if it would fit in my panasonic camcorder with 43mm diameter filter. The V-ZCAM4 comes with 4 adapter rings, but none of them is 43mm. I`d like somebody tells me if I can get a 43mm ring so I can use it with the pinhole lens. This is my main doubt for the moment

I apreciate your comments

Emilio
March 24th, 2006, 02:11 AM
Ok, here is what I`m trying to do and what I have

- I have a panasonic camcorder with 43 mm diameter filter. I want to setup a bagcam for outdoors basically and indoors (malls) during the day, that means good light conditions.

My camcorder only have A/V output, so another pinhole camera doesn`t work. My choice would be the V-ZCAM4 but my only problem is the 43mm diameter lens of my panasonic....

Heeeelp please...

homersimpson
March 30th, 2006, 10:40 PM
Going to have to do what I did...buy a new camcorder.

migix
April 4th, 2006, 10:48 AM
Just a quick question.. which would you say is better, a 420 line pinhole cam or a 520 line bullet cam?

Emilio
April 4th, 2006, 01:54 PM
this is fucked up... I already have a camcorder and a digital camera and none of them are useful to get candid ass shots... I mean, I`ve got candid shots but this hobby is getting harder and harder everytime, people are more awareness now than in the past.

shit... have to buy a new camcorder and a new smallest digital camera... somebody lend me some money!!! hahaha... oh I forgot to include the v-zcam4... how much would it be? no less than 600 or 700 dls...

RD313
April 4th, 2006, 07:59 PM
migix : Depends on if they're different cameras and what you plan on using them for. a bullet cam is fine if you're going to have it mounted somewhere... I mean, pinhole cams are made to be hidden in places, and bullet cams really aren't. If that's not an issue, the cameras are of the same manufacturer (like Sony) then you would want to factor in whether or not they're color or black and white.

If the cameras are identical, just in different housing, and the use of the camera is flexible enough to allow either use, then go with the higher line count. :)

Emilio : candid ass shots? Your best bet is probably one of the higher end compact cams... I'm thinking Sony Cybershot and Canon Powershot/Elph series.

If it's getting to be a hassle... then stop :) I mean, everyone retires at some point. I know my love life, and work, have actually taken up so much time, that I've lost a lot of interest in candid shots lately.

Emilio
April 4th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I was thinking this hobby was getting a little bit compromised, since I live in a small city where friend of a friend know you. So this is why I was thinking to get my v-cam4 to get rid off possible inconvinients. And that is why I`ve been quiet lately, don`t want nobody point at me if I get busted.

Today I was lucky, I found one of my favorite hot chicks walking on the street... every time I see this hot ass walking on the street I got crazy... so I decided to get a few more shots. I could manage to walk just behind her without catching her attention, but couldn`t do anything with my monster digital camera (nikon 5400). I was very upset, hehe... shit... I was thinking "if I got my v-zcam4...."

This is just an example what I`m talking about... this is the reason I don`t want to give up with this beautiful hobby, hehe...

And the best thing... I know where to find this hot asses all the time, is just I need the proper equipment... I know the gym they go, where they work, etc... (stalker, me? naaa hehe)

http://img131.imagevenue.com/loc283/th_13056_big_phat_ass1.jpg (http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc283&image=13056_big_phat_ass1.jpg)http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc178/th_13061_big_phat_ass_2.jpg (http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc178&image=13061_big_phat_ass_2.jpg)http://img12.imagevenue.com/loc182/th_13066_candid_ass.jpg (http://img12.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc182&image=13066_candid_ass.jpg)http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc117/th_13071_candid_ass1.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc117&image=13071_candid_ass1.jpg)
http://img129.imagevenue.com/loc165/th_13076_candidass_3.jpg (http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc165&image=13076_candidass_3.jpg)

puregoldxxxx
April 9th, 2006, 09:34 AM
Hi RD313 and everybody as well. A couple of things:

What would you recommend for a miniDV X-RAY cam? and
What would you recomment for an Ultra Compact miniDV cam kinda like the size and design of JVC-DVP3U :
http://buy.overstock.com/images/products/L403776.jpg

Appreashhh!!! :)

RD313
April 9th, 2006, 08:53 PM
X-ray... anything Sony since those have Nightshot, and that makes everything all the much sweeter.

Really.. though, x-ray cams have been quite a big deal for quite a bit. All you really need is anything with a decet sized lens... anything 28mm or over, really.

You can always buy neutral density lenses to record in that near-IR range... then the rest is letting your camera look under there. Summer's coming up, so pickings will be ripe because of LOTs of light, and really thin, revealing clothes.

As for miniDV cameras, if it's just miniDV cameras by themselves, the smaller, the better. Just stay away from the Chinese/Taiwanese/Non-Japanese asian generic brands and you'll be okay.

I actually don't know that much about IR cams, but if you go to the voyeurweb forums, the subject has pretty much been beaten to death.

statusquo
April 9th, 2006, 09:58 PM
4.) Most importantly..... pinhole cameras have a working life of less than 100 hours. Even if you left a camera permanently in an existing clock (and that in itself would be a massive pain in the ass) it would only work for less than a week before it burned out.

is 100 hours really the max? i only ask because i just made myself a shoecam and the way i installed the cam into the shoe it cannot be removed. at least not easily. please share some advice on how you hide your cam in your shoe.

RD313
April 10th, 2006, 03:43 AM
Well.... I've heard that working life for pinhole cams is anywhere from 80 to 120 hours. However, the details on all of this is sketchy.

I suggest you add in a switch between your cam and the powersupply in order to only have the cam on when you need it.

How do I hide my cam in the shoe? A lot of people like the "tongue" idea... but I actually have mine in the tip of the shoe, up at an angle, so that my shoe doesn't need to be directly under...

That's the physical part..... the rest is my own technique... The best way to get a shoecam upskirt is to move your foot as if it was SUPPOSED to be doing whatever you're doing. In other words, if you think you look weird while walking/using it, then you probably do.

Here's a visualization exercise... you know how when you pass under stairs, and you wanna look up to get a pretty view of the sky and under any short skirts? You know how you don't just stop dead, and stare straight up? Yeah... you don't do that with a shoecam either. Imagine that your shoecam is another eye, conveniently located in your shoe. It's an extension of your body, not a hidden camera. Treat it otherwise, and you'll get caught.

statusquo
April 10th, 2006, 10:10 PM
how do you keep the camera from moving around in your shoe. i only ask because mine is now glued in place and that is really going to suck when i have to replace it. i was looking for a better idea. i thank you for your help.

migix
April 11th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Howdy, i am having problems with connections and since the manuel i have is in chinese it isn't all that helpful! I have posted 2 pictures to show the wires and how i thought it should be set up.

http://img16.imagevenue.com/loc165/th_51924_cb1.jpg (http://img16.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc165&image=51924_cb1.jpg)

Above is the 3 wires coming from the actual cam, i have no clue what that big yellow connection is.. but the white connection has a yellow ring to it which made me think that it outlets video instead of audio??

http://img145.imagevenue.com/loc110/th_51929_cb2.jpg (http://img145.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc110&image=51929_cb2.jpg)

Thats how i connected it all up.. it obviously didn't work but i haven't got a clue what else i need or where i went wrong.

Cheers.

RD313
April 13th, 2006, 02:47 AM
statusquo : I actually do what some bagcammers do.. I actually stuff a piece of tissue between the cam and the shoe to keep it in place. Most people use some kind of insert, whether it be removable like mine, or permanently fixed.

migix : obviously the red is power. The white is audio (you'll never be using that..... seriously, you might as well chop it off) the yellow one is video. Now you're probably wondering "What in the crap kind of connection is this?" That's a BNC connection.

In other words, you probably need a BNC-to-RCA adapter. You can pick them up at Radio Shack for less than $2. As for male/female, I'm actually not sure. But I'm sure you'll figure it out :)

onetime2
April 14th, 2006, 10:41 PM
I have pinhole cams that have over a year of use on them running 24/7... Never heard of short lived?? They come with a 1 year warranty.

I would like to ask what is the best pinhole out now for color upskirts? I'm tired of all the backlighting problems I have the light/sky are all bright and under her skirt it's so dark!

statusquo
April 15th, 2006, 09:52 PM
[QUOTE=RD313]statusquo : I actually do what some bagcammers do.. I actually stuff a piece of tissue between the cam and the shoe to keep it in place. Most people use some kind of insert, whether it be removable like mine, or permanently fixed.

thanks for the advice. i ordered a few more cheap pinhole cams just in case my current one dies on me. im also going to try to create somekind of insert. id much rather do that then use glue again. do you have any advice on how to make one?

RD313
April 15th, 2006, 10:00 PM
onetime2 : I don't really know if there are any truly good color cameras. I would recommend any sony pinhole CCD cam with SuperHAD. Other than that, there isn't too much besides really crappy CMOS cameras.

I got so frustrated with my color cam, that I switched to a black and white camera. Black and white cameras are awesome for shoecams, if you get the right ones. I would recommend Sony CCD cameras with EX-View. They're twice as sensitive to light as SuperHAD cameras, and SuperHAD cameras are some of the most sensitive color cameras out there.

The differences are enormous : backlight compensation, faster focus, no bleeding edges, really fast autocontrast, sharper images, higher resolutions, and cheaper prices.

statusquo : styrofoam? You could just use styrofoam, shave it to the shape you need it, and drill holes through it to keep it in place. You would want to indent the sides of it a little bit so that you could take it out, I guess. Otherwise, balled up newspaper, tissue, whatever fits and will stay in place. I really wouldn't worry too much about overheating if I were you.

onetime2
April 15th, 2006, 10:32 PM
RD313, B&W just seems so old fasioned! I have an expensive, stealthy setup and to think I'm only shooting b&w with it :( But I too am very frustrated with color upskirting... so I'm going to get one of those 600 line Ex-view B&W ones and give it a go...
Thanks

RD313
April 16th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Trust me, it's worth it.

I have a 600 TVL Sony Ex-view 1/3" CCD camera. It provides awesome shots. I actually went out tonight, but found nothing decent :(

The tossup with color and not is a complex one. In good light, you can see the different colors on the panties :D However, with a black and white, you'll ALWAYS get a good shot.

My 380 TVL Sony SuperHAD 1/3" CCD cost me $30 (USD) more than my 600 line camera and it's results were no where near as sharp as the camera I have now.

Onetime2, what kind of recorder are you using?
I would like to know because I'm looking to upgrade mine :D

I mean, it's great, but I'd like to get ass in 640x480 resolution, hahaha.

jonty35
April 16th, 2006, 11:43 PM
was wondering if you had any ideas on how too hide the red glare from a hidden screw cam ? i have got it set up in my bth room but if you look straight at it you can see the red glare.
thanks mate
jon

RD313
April 17th, 2006, 01:40 PM
jonty35 : angle the camera in a way where it would be very difficult to look at it straight on. That's really the only advice that I can give, unless you can put some kind of mesh in front of it.

homersimpson
April 17th, 2006, 10:48 PM
was wondering if you had any ideas on how too hide the red glare from a hidden screw cam ? i have got it set up in my bth room but if you look straight at it you can see the red glare.
thanks mate
jon
I may be giving the wrong advice, but I wouldnt worry about it unless you can spot it without looking at it. Thank about it, why would anyone look directly at a "screw".

jonty35
April 18th, 2006, 12:28 AM
thanks for the advice both of you guys ,

puregoldxxxx
April 20th, 2006, 07:47 AM
Hi! What kind of frequency recommendation would you give for a Clock/Radio cam? something that wouldn't interfere with the 900 or 2.5 GHz frequencies of home phones..... anyone??

statusquo
April 20th, 2006, 09:05 PM
statusquo : styrofoam? You could just use styrofoam, shave it to the shape you need it, and drill holes through it to keep it in place. You would want to indent the sides of it a little bit so that you could take it out, I guess. Otherwise, balled up newspaper, tissue, whatever fits and will stay in place. I really wouldn't worry too much about overheating if I were you.

styrofoam! thats a great idea. im surprised i didnt think of it before. thanks again.

jonty35
April 24th, 2006, 01:27 AM
did exactly what you guys recomended and from looking at it from a million different angles im happy that the red glare cant be seen.. now i have too wait until i get some vid and if its decent enough ill post it on here
once again thanks guys its great too be able too ask qs and get answers or at least suggestions unlike another board i know of .

RD313
April 24th, 2006, 01:51 AM
Are you talking about VW board?

Yeah, that board is full of closed-off assholes.
Texray and Ohmslaw were the only people who ever helped me.=
Even then, it was minimal.

This thread was started ENTIRELY to counter VW web.
I wanted this thread to become pinhole paradise.....
Since SOOO many people don't wanna give out info.

That's good for them, but hey, I'm not held accountable if anyone gets caught. I care, that's true, but I'm not at able to be held accountable if someone is caught. Neither is this board... so if you get caught, that's no skin off anyone else's back but your own.

At VW BB they never got that. Those people are fucking worthless. After finding this board, I never again went back.

Besides, my only hope, was to make their tech support board worthless by posting up all the info that anyone could ever ask for right here. I hate that board, that's why I am so willing to do everything they never could... because I'm better.

jonty35
April 24th, 2006, 02:24 AM
yep i bloody agree anytime i ever asked a q it was usually answered with some smart arse remark i was under the impression that the board was too help people with the same interests not bag them. and if i get busted, your spot on with your reply , im a big boy and im responsible for my own actions it is however great too have someone with a bit of knowledge too help you out when you have a problem you cant work out yourself , and hell what does it hurt too share information it all helps the cause ......... im just a learner but im very cautious i read everything you have too say as well as the other guys suggestions then i give it a trial on my dogs, cats whatever and see how it works 4 me . once again buddy thanks heeps you are a bloody legend .

CaprisPleaze
April 24th, 2006, 11:11 AM
Hows it been RD313!? :D What's up everyone :)

Haven't had a chance to do any candid stuff yet. I been pouring a lot of money into home improvements lately, and put off buying my spy stuff until
now.

RD313, I see your still helping us rookies out.

This rookie is finally ready to buy his setup.

Question:

What do you think of the PVR-9122 portable video recorder at www.spycameras.com ?

It's pricey, but what is you opinion about the specs and features?

I still have my absolutely new Canon ZR200 that I was planning on using for the recording, but I can't figure out for the life of me how to conceal it without a bulge, and still move comfortably. It's unused, I may be able to pawn it for about half of what a bought it for :rolleyes:

It looks like I could tape the PVR-9122 to my inner-thigh bcuz it's flat, or something along those lines. And though I did sneak my camera into some local stores to see if any alarm would go off, and they didn't,, I would think that if THERE WAS a possibility of detection at some stores, than it would less likely with a PVR than with a video camera. Though that is purely a guess on my part.

I'm still thinking of a custom button cam from them. I forgot the price they quoted me a couple of months ago. But it was descent for one of their top cameras in a button cam setup.

It's to hot here to wear long sleeves to do the sleeve cam thing this time of the year, but I guess I can wear it in some pants, or in some of my short sleeve button-up shirts on the front buttons.

Anyway, it's good to be talking with you all again, and if you see any problems with my soon to be setup, or some advice, lemme know.

Thanx, peace ;)

RD313
April 25th, 2006, 07:37 PM
Ehh... that PVR looks spotty. 64 minutes of 780x240 on a 1GB SD card? Sounds kinda lame to me. Sure it may get the video at 24FPS but the bitrate is probably going to be really crappy. I'm actually not sure at all...

I would highly recommend emailing/calling them, and asking about the bitrate. If the thing records at a bitrate higher than 3Mbits a sec, then I suggest you go for it. Hell, if that's the way it is, I'd buy one myself :)

By my estimation, according to the specs, the bitrate should be around 2Mbits per second at the very most.

Let me explain why having a high bitrate is really important : the higher the bitrate, the more that the camera is actually recording. In other words, the higher the bitrate, the more of a full frame you get per shot. A low bitrate means that you'll get video blur, and that's the last thing we want : getting the perfect shot..... with a lot of blur (or backlight!)

MiniDV is the absolute best for bitrates right now, it has a fixed bitrate of 25Mbits per second. Most other recorders have a bitrate of 2Mbits/second or lower. Even Archos, which are arguably the best video recorders (albeit pricey), don't go higher than 5Mbits pers second.

If you ask me, for the money, Neuros recorders are the best. They record at 2Mbps and they can record at 640x480 @ 30FPS. Not only that, you can get them for under $150.

But then again, if quality is a must..... then just wait. I myself use a Mustek PVR-A1. It's cheap and the video is decent... the most important thing is the camera itself.

As for a buttoncam? I wouldn't suggest buying one of theirs when you can easily make your own for cheaper :)

As for the pants thing? Well, I actually carry mine in my pocket, I run the wires up my leg, and I cut out a hole in the pocket. It's only big enough for the wires, and there's only enough wire down my leg for me to walk..... nothing flops around :)

If you need anything more, ask :D

jonty35
April 26th, 2006, 03:21 AM
hi rd . could you help me out again with some info ? my cam is supposed too run on a either a 9 volt battery with the clip that came with it or i am too buy a 8 volt converter if i want too run it from the wall socket ..... i have a 9 volt converter but am not sure if it will burn the cam out . ive seen in some of the threads that you say they can run on 12 volt so im gathering it would be ok but would rather check with you first then stuff it up and be kickin myself cause i didn't.....btw i was goin too hook it too a switch so it would only be on when recording ... thanks again mate

toxik
April 26th, 2006, 07:18 PM
This is for anyone who has had or has one...
Before I buy it....
How is the v-zcam4?
What is the Quality like?
Is it worth the money?

Thanks
-Toxik

RD313
April 26th, 2006, 10:24 PM
jonty35: Yes, a 9V converter will work perfectly fine... if it ran off a 9v battery, it should be able to run off a 9V connection (get it?)

Yeah, be careful with those wallwarts. Cameras DO usually have a tolerance of +-10% of their power rating.... but stick as close to the original rating as possible.

toxik: the quality is going to be as good as your camera. The field of view might change a bit, but if your camera sucks, then this won't make it any better.

I know a couple guys have something like that, maybe they can expand on what I'm saying.

jonty35
April 26th, 2006, 10:53 PM
:gc thanks again mate

Koala
April 27th, 2006, 03:02 AM
After reading this thread carefully, I am considering picking up a pinhole cam. I want to get a decent quality color model. It seems like the most reccomended type would be a sony ccd.

Where would be the best place to pick one up online at a decent value? From what I can tell "Spytown" has better prices than the other sites but they don't seem to sell a sony model. A couple of the other sites have them but they range up pretty high in price.

I don't really want to go too much over $100 if I can avoid it.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

CaprisPleaze
April 27th, 2006, 11:11 AM
I'm seriously considering the afore mentioned PVR.

Here it is on Ebay too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-GB-Memory-Mini-Portable-Pocket-DVR-Video-Recorder-NEW_W0QQitemZ9718079080QQcategoryZ48634QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I can't find out the brand. The specs look great, though, like you said, I don't know the bit rate. I'll try to find out.

That thing is only like 2.5"x3.5"x1". I could conceal that EASILY. Plus, I don't think a detector can detect something that is recording to a memory card. I think there is a certain frequency given off by tape video recorders when they're recording that is detectable.

Anyway...if anyone can find out anymore info in that^, lemme know, thanx :)

RD313
April 27th, 2006, 11:14 PM
Koala : they DO have some sony cameras.... http://www.spytown.com/ktnc--b-w--miniature-camera--interline--1-3--ccd.html

I actually bought the one at the bottom, one of the ones that's $102. That thing works miracles... I'm currently repairing a power supply on mine, but the next time I go out, I'll make sure to get some uppies.

Read people's opinions of spytown. Spytown SUCKS. Their service is absolutely horrible. They never reply to any emails, I don't even know if they have a working phone number. A lot of people have complained about them, and for good reason.

Yes, they DO give decent enough service... their prices are ultra-low, and their variety is massive. However, their processing time is absolutely horrible. I would know, I've ordered from them twice, and will seriously consider other places before going back to them.

In any case, they have the lowest prices available. That's the ONLY reason I would recommend them.

If you guys want to look by maker, look up KTC/KT&C on the internet. KT&C is a korean CCTV wholesaler. Their prices are very low, and the quality of their stuff is very high. They're on the cutting edge of technology, and their cameras are always the newest.

The problem with buying cameras is that it's such a niche market. I went to a local spy shop, and I found a board camera for $329... the same one I bought for $110 from www.spycameras.com Not only that, you can find that same camera for less than $100 on spytown.

A lot of places on the internet have old merchandise, but since demand is so low, they can price the items as high as they want. Good for business, bad for us... and since they really don't have to compete with anyone, they simply make a profit from it.

That's where the Chinese/Korean/Japanese makers come in. They are constantly selling and buying in high demands, so the technology is always fresh, and the prices are always low.

I got a question for everyone... anyone know where I can buy pigtails for my camera? I need a 3-pin video/power assembly, and I'd like to be able to get one for cheap... or at least in bundles. Those break on me all the time, and it's becoming a nightmare to replace them.

Koala
April 28th, 2006, 12:07 AM
Thanks for all the information. I really appreciate it. If spytown is that bad then I'll look elsewhere. What do you think about buying from ebay or an ebay store? There are some comparable cameras on there for decent prices.

I was considering something like maybe this..
http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-CCD-Mini-Color-Camera-Pinhole-Lens-DAY-NIGHT_W0QQitemZ9707590340QQcategoryZ48629QQssPageN ameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But these cameras don't list features like Ex-view/Super had apparently. How important would you say that is?

RD313
April 28th, 2006, 03:55 AM
That camera you pointed me to, if indeed a Sony camera, then it's a good one, at a good price.

All Sony day/night cameras are Super HAD cameras. They typically get .5 lux at lowest, and usually at around 10lux they switch to black and white. In other words, if you're going to be indoors, some parts of your video will be black and white. This is a camera meant for the outdoors and really well-lit places.

Only the B&W cameras are the ones that come with Ex-view. Ex-view is about twice as sensitive to light as SuperHAD, however, it's only for the B&W cameras.

Basically, check out the user info for the stores you buy from. eBay is a good place to shop because if the store's had a lot of customers, then they'll have feedback.

Koala
April 28th, 2006, 09:40 PM
Basically what I'm planning on doing is a bag-cam style setup. At the moment I'm on the fence as to whether I should buy a decent sony pinhole ccd or maybe a lens adapter like this "v-zcam4" like the one guy seemed so obsessed with. I think either one would work with my camcorder.

My questions at the moment:

1. Will I get better quality with this vzcam4 on my canon elura 100 than I would with a separate spy cam since it would have all the bells and whistles of my camcorder.

2. If I picked up that day-night cam like I linked before, would it be likely to go into b/w mode inside an office building. I am not really a fan of b/w and that would kinda kill it for me.

3. Since I am not doing anything super sneaky like putting a cam in a shoe or wearing it on my person, it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle of a spycam would it? I thought about implanting it in the strap of my bag, but I am thinking maybe that's a bit silly.

RD313
April 29th, 2006, 04:40 AM
I would recommend you go with the bagcam setup. Basically, you'd have to make a hole in the bag, and then film from that. I would recommend the V-Zcam4. Why? Recording quality is going to be a million times better than a pinhole, and it'll end up in color.

Not only that, it should be cheaper :)

As for your questions koala :
1.) The quality will be as good as your camera's recording capabilities.
2.) The camera would have to be basically be in a bar setting for it to go B&W. It's actually a little more than that..... but, next time you're in an office, look under a desk, see how dark that is? That's probably around 10lux, that's about how dark the area that your camera's shooting needs to be for to switch.
3.) Bagcam is cumbersome in it's size... and the fact that bags themselves can look suspicious. If you are in a position where you wouldn't look weird toting a bag around, then go for that.

Koala
April 29th, 2006, 11:14 PM
Ok, RD. I'll give it a shot. It seems like the best place to go for that would be BH. There aren't really a lot of options as far as merchants go.

Thanks a lot for all the info, man. You're a great asset to the community.

toxik
April 29th, 2006, 11:24 PM
I use to use a similar setup.. the quality isnt superior, but it is a pretty good pinhole cam, good price compared to the other vendors, thanks for helping with the VZCAM4 questions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9719684788&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

-Toxik

CaprisPleaze
April 30th, 2006, 04:58 PM
Hey RD313,

Could you please post a video, so that I can see the picture quality from your PVR?

It doesn't have to be of a girl, it can be a brief vid of your walking down the street, at a park, etc.

I'd just like to see HOW cheap that PVR is, or if it's decent enough so that I won't go spend more money on something that isn't necessary.

And um...btw, what in the world is this "V-Zcam4" that I keep hearing
about?...

**edit** Hey is there such thing as a wrist-watch camera? If so, where can they be found? Just curious
;)

homersimpson
April 30th, 2006, 10:50 PM
Well I have had my V-Zcam4 for about a month now and its as good as gold. I wouldnt trade it for anything.

RD313
May 1st, 2006, 07:00 AM
Errr..... I need to find a good ASF editing utility. I need to blur out faces from my videos. And then I'll post one. I have about 20 minutes of thong upskirt footage from a single girl in a single session. Brilliant quality, you need to see it... and this is with my old cam... I haven't taped anything decent with my new cam, but with all the warm weather, that's going to change.

mr. Q
May 1st, 2006, 09:58 AM
Koala: I guess im the guy obsessed with the v-z? Not really, its just what i use, and therefore what i write about. But you´ll be happy to know im know experimenting with a laptop,video grabber, and pinhole setup. Good quality video, more then enough space for lenghty filming. As im not a upskirter, i dont have to be cautious of strange looks from strangers or anything.

Caprispleaze: Detectors scan for frequencies given off be the camera itself. What they record to is irrelevant. However, most detectors only sweep in the range wireless camera´s use. Another good reason to use wired cams!


Q

CaprisPleaze
May 1st, 2006, 10:28 AM
RD313,

Sounds good man, but like I said, it doesn't have to be candid. If it makes it any easier on you not having to edit, blur faces and all that, just walk down the street, walk down your hallway, somethin', I just wanna see how the quality of that Mustek is.


Mr Q,

Hmm, cool, thanx for the info.
I'm guessing that the PVR I was inquiring about, maybe a page or two ago, isn't as easily detected..???

Every place that I've seen that carries it says that it's perfect for "mystery shopping". So, sounds like it's made to be brought into stores.

And as far as the pinhole cam giving of a frequency, I don't know, I've still yet to purchase one.

Live and learn, that's why I ask a lot of questions :D

Thanx guyz :)

**edit** I'm thinking of this cam: http://www.spycameras.com/gw-3000p.htm
And their PVR-9122. What do ya think?

RD313
May 1st, 2006, 08:10 PM
I wouldn't worry about your camera being detected. Camera detectors have extremely limited uses, and a lot of them only scan the 900Mhz, 1.2Ghz, and 2.4Ghz frequencies for signals being given off. Some can even detect wired cameras..... but... let's be reasonable : I've worked in department stores, I've worked in malls, I've seen security setups, I've worked security myself.....

Most stores cannot even afford to get sets of $40 cameras! Most stores' camera systems usually don't cost more than $10,000. Most of the cost of having a security department aren't the cameras, but the installation, the control room and the staff.

Control boards for camera systems are ridiculously expensive to set up, thus, the cost of the camera systems are almost negligible.

The camera I wear in my shoe, is actually a higher quality camera than those they use in most department stores and in most banks. That's right, the majority of cameras out there are either on par, or better than the ones you see in banks.

So..... if a store won't even PAY to have DECENT cameras, to stop people, what makes you think they're going to spend $300+ JUST to detect hidden cameras?

Maybe that day will come..... way off in the future, when EVERYONE is using a hidden cam just like us... Until then, we need to have no fear of detection by electronic/mechanical means.

However, if you do get detected, it's because you have poor technique.

CaprisPleaze, that camera you pointed to, is the exact same camera I'm using right now. It's a wonderful camera. I paid $102 at SpyTown for that same model. According to Sony, it's about twice as light sensitive as the Super HAD models.

KT&C makes that camera system, and it's really good. Check the internet for newer stuff and/or lower prices. $179 is kinda high..... however, you'll get pretty decent service for the price.

If you ask me, that may be the best camera you can get for the price. That camera may be the highest end camera out on the market before you start getting out of the realm of consumer electronics, and into custom built-to-order surveillance.

ZuluX
May 7th, 2006, 03:17 AM
ok i've been reading these threads, like mad but still going through it. I've ordered some stuff over the net last year when I had a bit of time and finally took it out about 10mins ago to play around with it. Its got a tiny 1 Lux, 380TV lines PAL pinhole wireless camera along with a wireless receiver running @ 2.4G.
I simply hooked this up to the TV to have a play. Whats the first thing that come on? Cable TV its picked up from somewhere!!!! WTF??!!! I get no sound but clear video; i presume this is being picked up from a house nearby???? *HELP*
Although, I'm happy that i get to watch footy, I'm totally scared that if I'm capturing this from someone, can my wireless camera be sending the same signal to someone else in the neighbourhood?? *HELP*
At this point in time, I have no idea whats happening, I have obviously turned my wireless cam off but left the receiver on. Can my signal be detected by others in the neighbourhood? Help pls guys...

CaprisPleaze
May 7th, 2006, 09:27 PM
I think ANYONE that tunes in to that frequency can pick up what you're picking up...

RD313
May 8th, 2006, 03:28 AM
Wow..... that's really weird!

Anyways, don't fret... there's a theory that goes by the way that if two channels are being broadcast at the same frequency, the strongest signal will overtake the weaker ones.

To test out this theory... figure out what channel it is you're picking up... then turn your TV to that same channel. Turn your camera on, and see if your TV picks up the camera.....

Anyways... your fears should be this, in this order :
1.) Your camera is beaming out at a frequency that can be picked up by ANYONE tuning into it.....
2.) Due to the strength of the cable TV, it might overtake your camera's signal, rendering your wireless camera useless.....

Anyways, either one is really bad. I suggest you convert it to a wired setup if at all possible.

Either that, or you scrap this idea. What a fear, to have someone flipping the channels, then tuning into footage of someone undressing on your camera!

ZuluX
May 9th, 2006, 03:09 AM
Wow..... that's really weird!

Anyways, don't fret... there's a theory that goes by the way that if two channels are being broadcast at the same frequency, the strongest signal will overtake the weaker ones.

To test out this theory... figure out what channel it is you're picking up... then turn your TV to that same channel. Turn your camera on, and see if your TV picks up the camera.....

Ok, what the TV picks up is the cable channel but this is even BEFORE the wireless cam is connected.

i turned the wireless cam on but the TV doesnt pick it up in the normal channels except the video in channel.



Anyways... your fears should be this, in this order :
1.) Your camera is beaming out at a frequency that can be picked up by ANYONE tuning into it.....
2.) Due to the strength of the cable TV, it might overtake your camera's signal, rendering your wireless camera useless.....


wow! bit more complicated that what I thought. but hopefully i can setup something like this properly, with YOUR help :)
I got a ton of guests coming in the next few months that I would like to set up in prob guest room and the toilet for all the co-ed parties at my place!



Anyways, either one is really bad. I suggest you convert it to a wired setup if at all possible.

Either that, or you scrap this idea. What a fear, to have someone flipping the channels, then tuning into footage of someone undressing on your camera!

tru, but wired would be a no go zone. since i'm situated in Australia, do you of any reliable stores here? i guess shipping from states is possible but i'm worried about the voltage diff etc, true?

thanks a million dude. talk to you soon :)

OverAndOut
May 10th, 2006, 01:11 AM
Hey ZuluX, have you tried this store?

http://www.allthings.com.au

This transmitter works fairly well (for its size) & it has 4 selectable channels.

http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/Wireless/DIY%20Extra%20Tiny%20TX%20Module%205%20vdc.html

I paired it with the following camera

http://www.eyespyvideo.com/palformat/pcc-7had.htm

Both the transmitter & camera will run off 9v batteries. Of course you will only get about an hours worth of time out of them. Best to use a 9.6v battery pack (8 1.2v recharagable batteries) with a split cable to power both devices. That setup will last around 4-5hrs.

Of course with a wireless setup you will get interference. If its clarity your after your better off using a wired setup with a better quality pinhole like this one .

http://www.eyespyvideo.com/palformat/pcc-1xp.htm

Quite easy to make a bin cam setup that is virtually undetectable (bin with black plastic lining + camcorder/battery pack sitting in bin under plastic lining + pinhole under lip of plastic lining on outside of bin). Using a camcorder instead of a pinhole would obviously be the ultimate but it somewhat limits your setup options.

ZuluX
May 10th, 2006, 03:41 AM
Whitestar,
thanks for your links and your advice mate. BTW, are you located in Australia? It would be nice to keep in touch if you are bro. You've seen my posts on here so you know that i'm legit :)

jonty35
May 10th, 2006, 03:55 AM
http://www.purelysecurity.com/spy-cameras-cat.php?cat_id=1
mate these guys have an address in act (i know as i sent a money order)but get their stuff from china i gather. i got a pinhole disguised as a screw off them and it works fine(haven't got anything with it as yet). their price wasnt too bad either i didnt think although im only a begginner.
cheers mate

OverAndOut
May 10th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Hey ZuluX, no i'm not in Aus but i'm not that far away ;) If you want to talk more about setups & the like you can reach me at 'squat_4_me at yahoo dot com'

RD313
May 10th, 2006, 06:47 PM
Or..... you could just post the questions and answers here.....
I mean, that's the whole point of the thread :)

OverAndOut
May 10th, 2006, 08:10 PM
True, i'm all for helping people out but there's only so much you can really talk about on a 'public' forum without compromising yourself. Its a dangerous game that some of us play ..

OverAndOut
May 10th, 2006, 09:33 PM
Been reading some of your comments RD313 about Color vs B&W pinholes for upskirting. I used to shoe cam with a color pinhole but as you mentioned the background light just killed the shots. To get around that I abandoned my shoecam & built a setup that allows you to get the camera under the lip of the skirt thus removing backgroud light from the equation.

The setup consists of a long(ish) roll of birthday wrapping paper (preferably black or with lots of pictures on it), a pinhole stuck on the inside of the roll right at the end with the cables running along the inside of the roll, and a small plastic shopping bag which holds the camcorder & battery pack. The pinhole peers through a small hole in the roll/wrapping paper while the power/av cables run along the inside of the roll & come out a small hole at the bottom into the bag underneath. When your carrying the setup, the roll & bag are in the same hand, with the roll sitting above the bag (the bag masks the cables coming out). Try to make the bag as small as possible as this will attract less atention from shop staff.

If the roll is long enough you can easily get it within inches of the target. This really helps if your pinhole has a wide(ish) angle lens. Of course if the target is wearing a demin skirt it will be quite dark up there & the camera will probably switch to a low light mode making the colors look washed out.

RD313
May 11th, 2006, 01:49 AM
Yes... the backlight is a killer with shoecams. To get around this, a lot of people use bagcams. The trade-off is between security and a good shot.

If I wanted a REALLY good shot, I'd go out, buy a regular video camera, and sneak it into a bag. Even Hi8 is better quality than the recorder I'm using. However, my system offers me quite a bit more security than your standard bagcam. Combine that with solid, sneaky techniques, and years of experience, and I become really difficult to catch. The same is true of anyone here with the same prerequisites.

In regards to the backlighting problem, one tip I use is to note the position of any lights within view of the lens... Then, I actually use my head (I bow forward) to block out the light when I get the shot. My cam doesn't look forward too much, it's angled almost directly up, which works out just fine with my sharp, long-nosed pinhole.

Backlight compensation doesn't really exist for color cameras, that's why I recommend a black and white camera. So far as practical experience goes, I've only gotten good results out of my color camera outside, in strong sunlight. That way, it gets brilliant shots. With flourescent (or even worse, tungsten) lighting, the shots are not nearly as good. with a black and white camera, these problems are accentuated less... and with good backlight compensation, I would call a B&W camera optimal for indoor uppies with a shoecam setup.

Anyways, as a rule, I don't encourage people to reveal their identites or locations in this thread. However, I see absolutely no problem with techniques or setups. I also don't encourage people taking pictures of their setups in full gear. For instance, I'm never going to show a picture of my system in my shoe, prepared.

In any case, the possibility of someone catching us, due to specific threads here is highly unlikely, almost impossible. Even if someone does read this, and catches us in the act, they'll NEVER be able to legally link us to this forum, as it stands quite a bit of legal protection due to where it's located.

Also, most security people have more to worry about than some guy getting upskirts. I mean, regardless of the setup, the most important thing, by far, is the techniques used when doing this. If you ask me, getting a non-sitting uppie is very similar to picking a pocket. In fact, it's so similar, that I would actually recommend learning how NOT to look like a pickpocket. I really do believe that the best upskirters who get caught, will get caught because they look like they're robbing someone.

Everyone else who gets caught? Well, they'll look like guys who were trying to get shots up girls' shorts.

I actually have a techniques thread here.. but no one ever asks or posts anything in it, so I'm assuming everyone that everyone either knows everything, doesn't wanna ask, or wants to keep to themselves.

Yeah, I would much rather post tips here for people to read, than to enlighten one person, and leave everyone else in the dark... However, I fully understand your desire for security, Whitestar.

jonty35
May 11th, 2006, 03:35 AM
rd313 mate i read everything u write and appreciate it imensely(sorry bout my spelling) i think this is like a sport too us guys and we have too do the training and the hard work b4 we can say we r any good at it, you on the other hand r like the coach guideing the way.
and mate if you have another thread im going too find that one and read it too

ZuluX
May 11th, 2006, 07:45 AM
true.. RD sorry but sometime things you think that you want to ask... kinda feels stupid..
but the biggest thing for me is that if there is a person near my location, i prob can team up with him.. and learn that way?? easier? will be away for the weekend but i'll be back next week with more questions :D
thanks guys for all your help :D

OverAndOut
May 11th, 2006, 06:35 PM
The only problem with using your head to block the light is that your more than likely to catch your face in the shot. I used to angle my camera on a slightly foward angle to avoid this. This had is disadvantages though as quite often you would catch light off the skirt which would intern cause the camera to darken the shot.

Thought about using a PVR for a while. The Archos PV500 caught my attention when it came out not long ago. There are USB adaptors available that will let you power a 9v pinhole directly off the unit via its USB interface. Only downside to it was the price & the fact that it records mpeg4. I like to edit my clips (to highlight shadows, remove my face, remove low light noise, etc..) and you just cant beat a camcorders DV AVI file for that. The best camcorder I found for upskirting was the Sony DCR PC55. It's pretty much the smallest camera on the market & has AVI in. As a general camcorder though its pretty hopeless (no nightshot, poor low light color, cant attach additional lens) but used as a small VCR its brilliant.

toxik
May 11th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Well I have had my V-Zcam4 for about a month now and its as good as gold. I wouldnt trade it for anything.

I agree Homer..
How do you have yours set up.. I still dont have a good setup for it.

homersimpson
May 11th, 2006, 09:40 PM
I agree Homer..
How do you have yours set up.. I still dont have a good setup for it.

I have a decent setup, and I am still trying to get it perfect. Basically my setup is in a gym bag. I have a carboard box inside and is cut apart down the middle and this holds the camera in place, and using double sided tape to hold the box to the bag. I have the pinhole glued to the bag, and used the end of a coat hanger to make the hole. Around the hole I have carboard cut out to try to keep the bag from wrinkling. How do you have yours setup? Check out my thread http://thecandidboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39528 and you will see the problem I am having.

toxik
May 12th, 2006, 03:24 PM
Homer Actually...
I jjust created this setup today and im going to try it out this weekend.
Check it..

I have a cd case no bigger then my camera.. and it fits perfectly in it. i too the shoulder stran and made a tight handel with ducktape so i could move the cam without any wasted motion...
Now.. I cut the hole in the bottem so about a half inch of the lens, and lens holder can go through. now i place the cd case with the handel inside another radioshack. plastic bag...
Inside the Radioshak bag i made a hole that i could screw the pinhole tip.. into the pinhole holder catching some of the plastic back inbetween to hold it steady..... (I actually have the hole tip visable man...

Now the radio shack bag is completely black and the tip cannot be seen nore can the cd case with the handel because it is covered by the radioshack bag...

Ill et you know how it goes.. This might be it.. for mall use anyways.

toxik
May 12th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Homer Actually...

I just created this setup today and im going to try it out this weekend.
Check it..

I have a cd case no bigger then my camera.. and it fits perfectly in it. i too the shoulder stran and made a tight handel with ducktape so i could move the cam without any wasted motion..
.
Now.. I cut the hole in the bottem so about a half inch of the lens, and lens holder can go through. now i place the cd case with the handel inside another radioshack. plastic bag...

Inside the Radioshak bag i made a hole that i could screw the pinhole tip.. into the pinhole holder catching some of the plastic back inbetween to hold it steady..... (I actually have the hole tip visable man...

Now the radio shack bag is completely black and the tip cannot be seen nore can the cd case with the handel because it is covered by the radioshack bag...

Ill let you know how it goes.. This might be it.. for mall use anyways.

(By the way I just started so if anyone has any pointer dont hesitate to let me know. Im not very good at it.)

ZuluX
May 21st, 2006, 07:19 AM
RD313 & Whitestar,

Sorry for the lateness in reply but I've been busy again with work. Anyways, I have so far got atleast 6 diff ppl coming over for stay overs at diff times in the next few months and I need to set up.

First setup would be their room i.e bedroom which is also going to be their change room

Second setup is going to be the toilet.. this would be much harder to conceal etc

Third setup is going to be for upskirts.. this is prob the hardest to setup but i'm willing to spend time, money and patience into this :)

But firstly I need to know the basics. This is what i know so far...

I need a CCD cam - could be wireless or wired and could be spy cam as in clock etc or hidden

secondly i need a transmitted

thirdly i need a receiver

Is this correct so far?


I'm starting on First Project the room setup. I will prob buy a smoke alarm or a wall clock thats got the ccd concealed. Can anyone recommend me some real quality ones?
Then i know nothing about transmitters and receivers. What are some good brands or what Hz do I need etc. Please help on this part.

Then I suppose I need to wire it from the receiver to a VCR to record it. Correct?

Can someone please correct me on the above and help me choose my required equipment?

thanks in advance guys :)

RD313
May 21st, 2006, 05:09 PM
www.spycameras.com has something for what you're looking for... fire alarm cam..... transmitter would transmit to your VCR/capture device.

If you want an easy upskirt cam... install one in the floor, RIGHT under the door to their room. They'll NEVER step there, and will ALWAYS walk over it. Put it closer to the handle of the door, as their bodies will naturally orientate themselves towards that part of the door.

Toilet cam? This one's harder.... Not quite sure how you'll do that.

aussievoy
May 22nd, 2006, 01:53 AM
buddy you can use a powerpoint if you own the house,flat etc just use one of those pinholes disguised as a screwhead and place it in one of the screw holes intended too hold it onto the wall plate. you wil have to use some sort of glue to hold that side against the wall is all .
cheers

ZuluX
May 22nd, 2006, 04:04 AM
hey aussievoy

thanks for your input bro. By your name, i take that you are from aus. can you drop me a line when you get a chance pls bro?
zulux_voyATyahooDOTcom

mikestritle
July 6th, 2006, 08:47 PM
i have a sony trv33 minidv camcorder
will the available pinhole cams readily hook up to this
(along with and external power source for the pinhole)

RD313
July 7th, 2006, 12:44 AM
Yes, with that camera you could hook up a pinhole.
Most pinhole cameras have a composite video output.....

When it comes to power, however, you'll have to provide that yourself.
Whether it be the 8 AA 12V battery holder that some places supply,
or just a plain single 9V battery (or a custom power supply)
pinhole cameras are almost always powered through an external connection.

If you plan on using a wireless setup, you'll also need
power for both the transmitters and recievers as well......

The only setup I could see someone doing with a pinhole and the camera you're using is a bagcam setup.... with the recorder and the pinhole in the same bag. Or, you'd still need a bagcam (to hold your recorder and power supplies) and you could also use a hidden body-worn camera.

aussievoy
July 8th, 2006, 02:55 PM
great 2 c you back rd . haven't read anything from you 4 a while ........was thinkin somethin may have happened .

ALTDAD45
July 9th, 2006, 03:19 PM
Looking for a pinhole wireless cam, still or video, that I can use in a bathroom vent to snap some pics of showering. Any recommendations on a particular cheap model that could be used for this? size is not an issue but limited funds to work with here.

Thanks!!!

RD313
July 10th, 2006, 02:30 AM
Yes, check out this camera here :
http://www.spytown.com/kpc-s20p1hex.html

I'm not saying that's the only one of it's kind, but the manufacturer, KT&C (a korean company), specializes in making great, cheap cameras. They really do have the best deals around. Their prices may not be the cheapest (there are cheaper manufacturers) but the quality of the materials they use are excellent, and they only use the newest Sony CCDs in their cameras.

The camera I'm pointing you to is the same one that I'm using for my shoecam. However, it's so small, and so versatile, that it can be used for ANYTHING.

If you ask my honest opinion on the best compromise between price and quality, I would say that camera is the absolute best way to go. 600TV lines is more or less DVD quality transmission, and the 600 line cameras are also cheap, when compared to those that do 800 or more lines (many of which are around $250+ USD). Also, if you're running the feed to a computer or laptop, you'll be set. I wouldn't recommend buying any higher unless you have some really high-tech setup going up. 600TV lines is actually MORE than a standard VCR can handle, and even full quality 600 lines would pretty much require all of a standard computer's resources. That should give you an idea of how high a resolution that is.

I specifically recommend the Sony EX-View cameras. Those are black&white only and can see in near darkness. They have a lot of nifty automatic features and are usually about the size of a quarter. I wouldn't recommend color, as color cameras of that size only work really well outdoors.

However, if you DO decide on a color camera, expect to pay more, and to get a worse picture. I have a Sony SuperHAD Color camera that does really well outdoors. However, once it gets under 10lux, it switches to black and white. You'd be surprised how much light is actually indoors, and how crappy tungsten and flourescent lighting are with cameras.

Both of these cameras are cheap, but there certainly are cheaper cameras. Stay far away from any cameras that say "CMOS" anywhere near them. CMOS sensors are amazingly crappy, and have yet to come up to the abilities of their CCD counter-parts. Maybe one day, there will be better CMOS cameras, but not anytime soon.

If you're going to do this in a vent, you'll also need a transmitter or reciever, unless you plan to run wires from the grate all the way to your reciever (whether it be a computer, a VCR, or something else). And in those cases, you're going to need power supplies to keep them running.

Also, as far as the grate goes. It'd probably be best if you found a lens that is needle-like, or something with zoom. A lot of vendors call them "super conical" lenses. In any case, you'll want a conical lens and NOT a flat lens.

You didn't specify what else you needed if anything else, so I'm just gonna stop there. Figure out how you want to plan out your setup, and then if you need help, post here.

Oh, and aussievoy, I was never gone. Just, no one's asked any questions regarding pinholes, or upskirting; the two things I know some stuff about :)

KYRICATSINROC
July 10th, 2006, 04:38 AM
HI RD313 WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PVR MAXIAN MP 2220? DO YOU THINK THIS IS WORTH FOR RECORDING?COS IT RECORDS FOR ABOUT VGA 640x480 RES AND THE BITRATES IS 3mbs and its size like an ipod?

RD313
July 10th, 2006, 08:03 AM
That actually sounds like something that's pretty decent. 640x480 Res is really as high as anyone needs it. And if it really does have a 3Mbit bitrate, then that's actually pretty decent.

I couldn't find any information on it, so I don't really know. It's korean, apparently, and I know that Korea and Hong Kong are a hotbed for cheap, powerful players and recorders.

I guess in the end, you'll have to ask someone for a demo video, or maybe get some more specs on it. Otherwise, if it fits your budget and it looks like something you could use, go for it.

I wish I could have a player like that :(

KYRICATSINROC
July 11th, 2006, 08:52 PM
yes its a korean pvr a 20 gb HD it sales for around 250 - 300$,you mention in this forum that to get a good quality uppies you have to get a mini dv for recording but some dv( mid range dv,s) only records 320x240 res in digital recording but 30mbs of vidrate and too bulky to fit in the pocket rather than a pvr that i mentioned too slim and not noticeable to the pocket.

aussievoy
July 13th, 2006, 02:15 AM
hi rd probably seems a stupid question to you but i have seen where you have said you can make any wireless cam wired or vice versa . could you explain to me how to make a wireless wired ? the only lead it has is the power lead and the antenna out the top . thanks in advance buddy

OverAndOut
July 13th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Heres another PVR worth considering

http://www.eyespyvideo.com/videorecorders/mobile/mdvr-4.htm

You will get over 4 hours recording on a 4gig card, though the battery only last's 1 hr.

KYRICATSINROC
July 13th, 2006, 09:23 PM
i think for me il rather save my money on a pvr than minidv, a pvr saves space on the pocket and you can find easily the record button or any function in upskirt operation,but you should get a pvr that records in vga resolution and atleast 3mb or up of video bitrates and a spycam that low in lux lighting.

RD313
July 14th, 2006, 03:44 AM
I don't ever remember saying that miniDV cameras being 320x240 resolution. Pretty much all miniDV cameras record at D1 resolution. However, by format, miniDV recorders record at 30MBits a second.

That DVR from eyespyvideo I was pointed to looks pretty good. Price is pretty fair and can become even lower if you order it without the added monitor.

I'd like to know, where you got the information that it can record about an hour's worth of video on a 1GB card. If that's possible, then that recorder is recording at a little over 2Mbits a second. Now, this isn't to be confused with MB. Megabits is a different measuring system from Megabytes.

I don't really know. When you look at those recorders over $200 USD, they don't really provide all that much more than their cheaper $100 counter-parts.

I'm waiting for the day when high-quality, high-resolution video becomes affordable.

OverAndOut
July 14th, 2006, 05:22 PM
Here is some info I was emailed about the MDVR-4. It also includes some details about the additional pinhole that can be powered directly off the PVR. Most of this info is on their website, but some isn't. The unique thing about it is that it records at DVD Resolutions (in PAL & NTSC)


**********

MDVR-4 features:

• High resolution 720 x 480 pixel recording at realtime video + synchronized audio
• One-touch lock recording (+ pause) with no requirement for any menu setup beforehand
• Nice little LCD screen has auto-shutoff option (after 30 seconds) to conserve the li-ion battery life
• Records files directly into .AVI format which can be quickly transferred to PC desktop and played using WMV or Quicktime with latest Divx codec installed * Easy to transfer / edit in many third party video software applications.
• Rechargeable Li-ion battery is common (Motorola type SNN5517A) & easily replaced
• LED indicators denote particular operation(s) with only a glance
• Future potential firmware upgrades available which user can install from file on SD card
• Time/ date stamping * (which can be disabled if desired)
*** Special ability to connect to our MPC-KIT camera. MPC-KIT is an amazing new covert camera (details below) which has the ability for direct single plug connection to MDVR-4. This "magic plug" allows the video (+ optional audio for qualified users) from camera to DVR without adapters while also allowing the camera to parasitically receive its voltage from the DVR battery.... pretty slick and finally something 'to write home about' for you serious bodyworn video customers.

720 x 480 pixel recording is excellent. The only thing we know of in the same class is our MDV-PRO1 at over $3K each. Specs are attached. The MDV-PRO1 still does create better video (with no visible signs of compression) as it considered more of a 'broadcast device', but it is larger, much more expensive and requires much more flash storage per minute of high resolution video. MDV-PRO1 specs are attached and we do have a special rebate from the factory on these until the end of June.

The MDVR-4 is literally the size of a pager including the screen and built-in lithium ion battery. It fits inside a box of cigarettes with the lid closed (see attached pics).

MDVR-4 'downsides':

• Most of the DVR controls are available ONLY through the use of the remote control. We wish buttons could also control all.
• Picture is a little noisy in low light situations- and when used with MPC-KIT camera can be darker than desired.
• We really pushed for AV inputs and outputs to be (larger and more secure) 3.5 mm rather than 2.5 mm but the factory was stuck on the smaller size plugs, most likely because of the deal with the OEM of the button camera which we now also carry. The unique 4-conductor 2.5 mm AV input actually exports 5V DC. Needless to say that the plug is incompatible with virtually every other 2.5 mm plug set or device ever made. * Some root components are available to make custom replacements and adapters.
• Firmware upgrades are performed through SD card, not USB cable. So, if and when future upgrades become available, you will need to transfer the raw file onto the SD card by using a simple flash card reader attached to your computer. * Once file in on SD card, the upgrade process itself is very quick and easy.
• So far in current version, there are a couple of minor glitches seen where a certain command or too many commands may result in lock, though the main recording functions have been excellent and AV recording unaffected (minor bugs will almost certainly be solved in impending firmware upgrades).
• We would like to see a 'beefier' set of AV input cables, though so far no problems & they do seem pretty tough even if thin.

MDVR-4 specs:
2.4" TFT LCD Screen
Time/ date stamping ability (with ability to remove)
Resolution: 720 x 480 pixels @ realtime 30 fps NTSC (25 fps PAL)
Recording compression: MPEG-4 (high resolution average 1 hr. 8 min. per GB) Divx® codec
Media: SD card recording with unlimited card size ability (1-4GB) **SD card not included
AV Input: 2.5 mm 4 conductor (RCA composite AV output adapter cable included)
AV Output: 2.5 mm 4 conductor (RCA composite AV input adapter cable included)
Current: 650mA
Dimensions: 3" x 2" x 1" (80 x 50 x 22 mm)
Weight: 91g with battery installed
* Included accessories: mini IR remote control, USB cable, 2 x AV adapter cables, 1000mA lithium ion rechargeable battery, AC charger, ear bud head phones and cordura case.

We have some very short test clips posted. These are unedited AVI files taken with 3 different cameras
http://eyespyvideo.com/softwaredownloads/mdvr4downloads.htm

** Please be sure to download the clips rather than trying to simply 'play' online as it may result in improper playback of the file in different browsers.

Download of the current (free) codec for Quicktime or Windows from the official Divx website http://www.divx.com is likely required for proper playback * Please realize that you will likely need to restart your computer after codec is successfully installed.

MDVR-4 can already be found for up to and even over $1000 each, but our price is $399.95 each. * Extra batteries are also available at $29.95 each.

Recorder price does not include SD card but even 2GB cards (2 hrs 15 minutes high resolution realtime AV) can now be attained for as little as $50. New website template example can be found at the following URL: http://videosecurity.tv/indexpage_example_content.html

MDVR-MOD is the world's smallest high resolution micro DVR board. Please see attached pics.
ATTN: OEM customers >>> Module version available is only slightly larger than a credit card!

MDVR-MOD ('bare' exposed module board version) specs are same as MDVR-4 except:
Dimensions: 3" x 1-7/8" x 5/8" (76 x 50 x 15 mm maximum thickness)
Weight: 19g (no battery)

Price = $349.95

Specs for MPC-KIT (modular facade CCD button camera):
High resolution Sony DSP 1/4" CCD imager
Wide angle (80 deg.) 4.3 mm pinhole lens
450+ TV lines horizontal resolution (768 x 492 pixels NTSC, 768 x 582 PAL)
0.2 lux minimum illumination @ F1.2
S/N 48dB min / 60 dB typ
* 5 optional facades (3 button sizes, 2 screw varieties) + 8 decoys included for each facade
* Includes special 2.5 mm mini plug to RCA video (female) adapter for use with other equipment besides MDVR-4
* Includes 9v battery connector
* SPECIAL mini-plug to connect to our high resolution MDVR-4 allows camera (and optional mic) create the world's smallest overall covert package

Price = $299.95

The MPC-KIT is the smartest bodyworn covert camera design we have ever seen. Removable facade and plenty of 'gap' distance allows a variety of different materials to be used, so it can be easily fitted as a shirt camera, purse camera, box camera, etc. unlike other similar covert cameras with fixed facades. Performance is good but not as good as our (larger) standard 1/3" Sony board cameras. Performance is more comparable to that of our CC-1HAD, but without quite as much low-light ability. But- esp. for what it is and does- is actually quite excellent and seems 'greedy' to ask for more at this point!

* We can also provide the audio version of the MPC-KIT to qualified police / govt. / military customers. ** Other than export, the only audio cameras made available in U.S. are to: government contractors, major journalism sources, professional mystery shopping companies + licensed private investigators (non-police agencies require simple end user affidavit on file).

The new micro DVR battery life in recording mode (LCD monitor disabled) is about 1.1+ hours if you are recording and powering the MPC-KIT camera at the same time. This is basically perfect for use with 1GB card (1.1 hrs per GB in high resolution), but we can provide a special external custom battery pack to allow longer run times for use with larger (2GB -4GB) SD cards.

RD313
July 15th, 2006, 07:34 AM
Wow, thanks for the info. The board module seems kind of like a ripoff. For the extra 50 dollars you get quite a bit more :(

Thank you very much for the information. If it's all true, then the recorder seems to record at about 2Mbits a second. This is better than the Mustek PVR-A1..... and the device seems to be geared to us body-worn people..... however, I don't really think that the $300 price gap is necessarily worth it..... when you consider that Neuros has similar performing PVRs for less than half the price.

KYRICATSINROC
July 19th, 2006, 10:30 PM
hi rd313 pls help is there any safe online store that i could buy a spycam? cos u know m from the phils. can you tell me where did you buy that spycam u use for shoecamming.

SoCalJamie
July 20th, 2006, 12:43 AM
Hi RD, can you post a picture of your shoe?

I've been wanting to make a shoe cam FOREVER for upskirt shots and I'm curious what it looks like.(in the shoe)

Glad to have found this forum, I think I will be snapping pics in no time :twothumbs

RD313
July 20th, 2006, 02:48 AM
CoCalJamie : Eh..... I'd much rather not :)
Call it an irrational fear, but I know that this is a BIG board.
And even though the board itself is NOT located in the US, I myself, AM.

I would hate to ever be caught..... and then to be linked here.
Being caught would be bad enough, but if some day, it were ever revealed who I am in real life, and my connections to this board, it would probably mean an absolute end to my helping anyone here. Also, it would ruin my career, or any future for it :)

Basically, this is what the shoe looks like :
It's like any other black, trendier, skater-type shoe.

Near the tip of the shoe is a small black hole.
The camera is concealed in there.

That's really about it.
Besides a 3mm hole, there's nothing visible of the cam.

Also, the lens itself is not visible unless you're standing directly over the shoe, and even then, only if the camera is directly under a light......

My shoecam is VERY hard to spot, unless you're specifically looking for it. I keep the shoe, for the most part, hidden from view when not going for a shot.

The actual mechanics of it? Well, I keep the cam in the shoe, I keep the cam directly under the hole in the shoe. I keep it in place with a bit of tissue. The wires ride along the top of the shoe, so that I don't step on them. My pants cover the tongue of the shoe for the most part, so no wires are ever exposed. Some wire is tucked into my sock, to keep it from flopping around, but the wire isn't secured anywhere else but at the pocket, so that it doesn't fall through.

As I've said, a good shoecam setup is cheap and fairly easy to make.

All you need is a capture device with an AV-in (a PVR), a pinhole cam, the right wiring, and a power supply. Mine is valued at about $250 USD.

I bought the pinhole for $102 from SpyTown (a Sony Ex-View 600TV line 1/3" CCD camera) I bought a Mustek PVR-A1 for $89 from Buy.com, the wiring and the power supply that I built myself cost me about $30 and I bought that from radio shack. They have a rechargeable NiMH that puts out 9V with a capacity of 1600 mAh. That one by itself is actually an RC car battery and runs for about 20 bucks.

So, what's so hard about the pinhole setup?
They're usually not pre-built, and the parts can be hard to find.

Otherwise, the wiring is a major pain in the ass. You'll have to do some snipping and soldering in places in order to connect the wires (usually power, but sometimes, video as well)

KYRICATSINROC : I can name a few places in the USA that have safe, secure, online stores. SpyTown.com, SpyCameras.com, and a few others... however, I don't know if they'll ship out to the Philippines.

I suggest you try eBay, and try to work out something with any auctions you bid in.

FoomFoom
July 20th, 2006, 07:54 AM
Has anyone had problems getting the cam to record correctly on a DV tape?

RD313
July 21st, 2006, 01:52 AM
If the DV recorder you're using has a composite video input, I don't see why you would have problems.

I have another question, though : does anyone know if there's any way to take a composite video stream, and have it converted, on the fly, into a firewire (AKA IEEE 1394, or iLink) signal? Is there such thing as an adapter that'll do that, and one that's ultra-portable and cheap? Or are the only converters large, bulky, AC powered converters?

0ne5hot
July 30th, 2006, 01:56 PM
There are quite a few composite to firewire converters around but I doubt any of them will fit all your criteria.

Although a few of them are small enough to fit in a big-ish pocket or in a bag, a lot of them are powered straight from the firewire cable, meaning it has to plug into a powered firewire port, like in a PC.

You can also get some slightly bigger ones that are mains powered (I'm guessing via a DC adaptor), and could be run off batteries, but every one I've seen is pretty expensive (around $150-200 or the equivalent). Here is a page that sells a few of them here in the uk but I'm sure you can track some down in the US :- http://www.dvc.uk.com/acatalog/Canopus_analogue_to_digital_converters.html

Even though they are reasonably small, when you take into accout the battery-pack I can only really see them being practical if you were using a bag in your setup. I'm guessing all this is so you can record analog video onto a DV-in camcorder when on-the-move right?

RD313
July 31st, 2006, 01:55 AM
Yeah, I've considered that, too...
I'm not nearly as diehard about these kind of things as I used to be.

Besides, my big thing here and everywhere, is high quality for low prices.
I'd probably get a small miniDV camera before trying to go with getting a DTE recorder, a converter, and yet ANOTHER set of power supplies for transmitters and all that jazz.

ispyu
December 19th, 2006, 07:03 PM
so whats a good starter (cheap :hornyval ) wireless setup? camera and transmitter need to be ultra compact, and the receiver portable (take batteries) and ultimately the receiver hooked up to a minidv. ebay prefered

something like this. is this gonna give me a slide show?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-WIRELESS-PINHOLE-COLOUR-SECURITY-SPY-CCTV-CAMERA_W0QQitemZ130061110182QQihZ003QQcategoryZ486 32QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

KYRICATSINROC
December 21st, 2006, 05:11 AM
HI RD313 WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS FIBER OPTIC SCOPE? http://www.advanced-intelligence.com/optics.html WOULD IT BE GREAT FOR UPSKIRTING? IT CAN BE CONCEAL IN SHOES AND RECORDED IN CAMCORDER.

zokopi
December 30th, 2006, 09:47 PM
hi everyone! rd313! what is model dvr has must 640x480 resulation low prize and high Kbps rate'

zokopi
January 1st, 2007, 11:11 AM
hi again! this site sales ultra compack video/audio high quality recorder.ı dont know cost but this device record video 9mbps 720x576 pixsel http://www.ovation.co.uk/FlashBack-2%20Rugged%20DVR.html

rfs
January 2nd, 2007, 07:44 PM
Would it be possible to have at least one example of a video frame taken with an ExView CCD low light capable mini camera ? There are some on the spycameras.com website but only in low resolution. How does it look like in high resolution when shot in indoor situation ?

Thanks

ps: I think I will buy the HRC-20HEX camera on the spycameras.com :)

easygoingted
January 4th, 2007, 02:41 PM
So what's the best pinhole cam on eBay right now. I can't find any on there with 600 lines. Maybe I'm just not very good at searching.

wakari
January 26th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Anyone still around here? My situation is like this:

I have a perfect opportunity to cam multiple girls using a bathroom. There is an excellent vent located at a perfect angle. I know I need a zoom or super conical lens becuase it's fairly far from the subject and the grate must not get in the way. I already have a high quality digital pvr i can use.

My question is, since this is a fairly hard to get to area, I assume I would need wireless. How do I hook something up inside the grate to ensure a constant power source for the transmitter and camera? The fan up there has power so can I somehow tap into that? Or would I have to keep batteries in the bathroom and go in there and hook it all up before recording each time (very difficult to pull off)

Also how safe is it, to leave a wireless cam signal on in an apartment complex? I have heard people can pick it up and get you busted.

ispyu
January 27th, 2007, 11:49 AM
So what's the best pinhole cam on eBay right now. I can't find any on there with 600 lines. Maybe I'm just not very good at searching.

420 is the highest ive seen from a whole saler. ive seen a coupl erandom 600s here and there tho. just keep looking

aussievoy
April 12th, 2007, 01:06 AM
was just wondering if this thread was still up and where rd has been

ballsax
April 13th, 2007, 11:26 PM
Not sure how active this thread is anymore, but I have a question. On ebay, there's so many different models at really cheap prices and they seem good. Like: http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Wired-Pinhole-Color-Camera-Nanny-Spy-Cam-CCTV-AC_W0QQitemZ190102064336QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48629QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Just wondering if anyone thinks it's a bad idea to buy it on ebay, or if I should just buy one on a real selling site which would cost more money.

homersimpson
April 14th, 2007, 02:09 AM
There are two types I think, CCD and CMOS cams. The CCD produce better quality at more of a price and the CMOS lesser quality at a cheaper price. I am guessing that one is a CMOS. Buy it and see its only about 20 bucks total.

videocandidwalkerupskirter
April 16th, 2007, 11:25 AM
Hello guys, could u please tell me where I could buy the plug that goes into the pinhole camera ??
It is a 3 pin plug that goes into the pinhole camera and the pther part go with a wire to the battery pack and the input in.
I stepped on the wire while walking ,and the plug that attach to my 600 tv lines B$W pinhole camera , broke.

thank u

easygoingted
April 30th, 2007, 08:59 AM
Hello guys, could u please tell me where I could buy the plug that goes into the pinhole camera ??
It is a 3 pin plug that goes into the pinhole camera and the pther part go with a wire to the battery pack and the input in.
I stepped on the wire while walking ,and the plug that attach to my 600 tv lines B$W pinhole camera , broke.

thank u


I'm curious about that as well. Mine is fine right now. But I know eventually I'll need a new one.

OverAndOut
April 30th, 2007, 08:57 PM
Hi Blizzard, here are some answers to a few of your questions.


* I have read this topic many times, which bit is the important bit for good videoquality, the camera or the recorder?

Both. A Camcorder with a ZCam4 pinhole adaptor will give you the best possible quality. Next up is a high res pinhole (480 lines or better) attached to the av/in of a camcorder. The advantage of recording into a Mini DV camcorder is that when you extract the footage from the camcorder it will be in the DV AVI format. This format is lossless (i.e. you get exactly what the pinhole gives you) & its the most widely supported video format for editing in packages such as Adobe Premier.

* What is at the moment the best way to record video, MiniDV or a PVR/DVR (Mustek ex.)? A MiniDV-recorder is more expensive?

Mini DV Camcorders can be more expensive than PVR's such as the Mustek or Archos but you also get the added functionality of using them as a camcorder (not just a recording device). One problem you will have in Europe is finding a Mini DV camcorder with Analog Passthrough (AV IN). Many European models have this feature removed due some crazy EU Tax on VCR type devices.

Camcorders also tend to be a bit more bulky & you can typically only record for 90 minutes onto 1 tape. The new HDV camcorders can apparently record 3 hours worth of footage onto 1 tape but they are quite expensive.

PVR's such as the Mustek & Archos tend to record in the MPEG4 format which is highly compressed and not ideal for editing. The Archos models (such as the 404, 504 & 604) have hard disks in them which means you can record for 3-4 hours continiously (dependant on battery life)

* Need all pinholecameras here own powersupply, or can it be powered with a PVR?

Some PVR's can power external cameras, though this isn't always practical due to oddball power connectors, a low supplied voltage, and reduced battery life. You really need to check the specs of the unit first & ask some questions.

It's usualy better to supply the pinhole with its own power (typically a battery pack of 8 x 1.2v rechargable batteries). A pinhole that requires 12v of power will normally work fine with a 9.6v battery pack.

* Where do i put the camera in the strap (mammariecammery??)? See the picture as example.

Thats a tough question to answer. It really depends on your method of approach & what type of target / location you are hoping to shoot. Once you actually get some gear you may also realise that some things are practical & others are not.


Hope that helps.

eyewatch
May 1st, 2007, 06:44 AM
Alot of cool advice. Just wondering, why not just go out and shoot the chicks who openly sit with their legs open showing their panties or non panties wearing dresses? That way there is really no issue of security risks getting caught by security cameras or cops etc. The most you would have to do is make sure the chick or someone around you doesn't see you take the shot. and when they do it usually isn't more than some loud embarrasing putdown of you being some pervert. When that happens you just get up and move on like you don't know they're talking about you (I know, I've been caught once or twice but always left without anything more than some chick trying to let everybody hear her call you names). But even if so, you wouldn't get carted away by the po po since the chick openly and willingly exposed herself to the public for all to see and you just took the shot. Now my question for this forum since these types of upskirts are all I do (no bagcam/shoecam uppies) is does anyone know of a more discrete camera to use since mine is alittle big and hard to work with (Sony Cybershot)? I'm certainly not dissing anyone who does the shoe thing or bag, hell I wish I had that kind of nerve but I would rather not take the risk. You guys are the pros at that sort of upskirting and I think starting this thread is a really great thing for us all. If you know of a better camera I can use for the spread open sitters let me know and I will certainly post what I get from it. As a matter of fact I've already post alot of my work in the candid upskirts section. Check it out.

last2laugh
May 22nd, 2007, 01:20 PM
Hi there,

i have a questin about spycams.
Using this (http://www.pearl.de/product.jsp?pdid=PE6206&catid=5450&vid=916&curr=DEM ) cam is the absolut shit, the quality is absolutely bad...

How can i get better quality (using shoecam)?

Or do i have to buy a new cam...?

Thx

/e: Sorry for my english, im german...

mrmario
May 30th, 2007, 08:53 AM
Hey, just a quick question. I'm looking to either have a spycam attatched to me or have it somewhere behind me, the only problem is i can't access a tv or computer to send the signal to. Are the any cameras that record to memory of some sort, which i could then watch later?

Thanks for any replies :)

OverAndOut
May 30th, 2007, 08:38 PM
Hi, you need to connect the Pinhole to either a Camcorder or a PVR. Rather than re-hash everything already mentioned in this thread I would suggest reading it from begining to end.

As for mtrushmore, your camera is a CMOS pinhole which is why the quality is so bad. I would also suggest you read this thread from begining to end.

fighterjock102
May 31st, 2007, 04:28 PM
Alot of cool advice. Just wondering, why not just go out and shoot the chicks who openly sit with their legs open showing their panties or non panties wearing dresses? That way there is really no issue of security risks getting caught by security cameras or cops etc. The most you would have to do is make sure the chick or someone around you doesn't see you take the shot. and when they do it usually isn't more than some loud embarrasing putdown of you being some pervert. When that happens you just get up and move on like you don't know they're talking about you (I know, I've been caught once or twice but always left without anything more than some chick trying to let everybody hear her call you names). But even if so, you wouldn't get carted away by the po po since the chick openly and willingly exposed herself to the public for all to see and you just took the shot. Now my question for this forum since these types of upskirts are all I do (no bagcam/shoecam uppies) is does anyone know of a more discrete camera to use since mine is alittle big and hard to work with (Sony Cybershot)? I'm certainly not dissing anyone who does the shoe thing or bag, hell I wish I had that kind of nerve but I would rather not take the risk. You guys are the pros at that sort of upskirting and I think starting this thread is a really great thing for us all. If you know of a better camera I can use for the spread open sitters let me know and I will certainly post what I get from it. As a matter of fact I've already post alot of my work in the candid upskirts section. Check it out.

eyewatch, I think my style is a sort of cross between you and some of these shoe/bagcammers. I too shoot with a slightly too large Sony Cybershot (DSC-P92 5.0mp still image, 640x480 @ 16fps in video). The quality is great for well-lit photos, decent (but not great) for well-lit vids, and god awful in low light in any mode. But my biggest gripe about using that camera for candids is the extending/retracting lens, which is probably the biggest giveaway. I'd love for a smaller, better resolution cam that doesn't have a retracting lens, but we work with what we're dealt with, right?

As for technique, I love upskirts. They are one of my favorite types of shots. And for the most part, I too tend to shoot the seated, panties on display to the public types of shots, but mostly just because they are the easiest, and because I like that the shots usually show off the crotch and/or the front of the panties, and not just the ass or a piece of string between the cheeks. However, I have also on several ocassions dared to drop the camera below the hemline if the situation permitted (although I am very cautious - probably cautious enough that most upskirters would call me a pussy for not taking chances for the better shots). I have been caught twice (once taking the seated kinds, where I just got yelled at by the girl's dad, and once taking the actual under the skirt kinds, where I had police called on me). Neither one is really safe, but I guess your kind is probably a bit closer to being legal, and a decent lawyer could probably swing it your way if the case really came down to that.

I have also as of recently begun working on ways to conceal my camera in my backpack in an attempt to get lower. Inspired by the sensational bagcammer Caffine1 and his dressing room and upskirt videos that have been taking TCB by storm, I'm working on finding a similar setup that works for me. I've found a good place to conceal my overly large P92 (probably not as well as I could hide a pinhole, but it's been fairly successful in what little testing I have done with it), but I'm having trouble securing it in place, so it's really not all that mobile as of yet. I'm hoping to make some progress in this area over the next month or so, because I really want to get into this style of voyeurism. But at the same time, I'm realistic enough to know that if I can't get the setup just right so that I am 100% comfortable and confident using it, I wont go taking chances on getting myself into trouble with it.

I hear exactly where you're coming from, sticking with the "visible to the public only" rule of thumb. And I do love those seated upskirt shots, believe me. But sometimes that just isn't enough for some of us, and others just prefer the thrill of having a more challenging (and possibly more rewarding) type of voyeuristic adventure.

loonity2007
June 7th, 2007, 07:43 PM
Does the V-Zcam4 requires a camcorder with AV-IN too or can i just screw it to my camcorder with the right adapter-ring?

If this is possible i'd buy myself a 'cheap' Mini-DV cam (mostly they dont have AV-IN) and use it in a bag with the V-Zcam4.

If the V-Zcam4 works properly without AV-IN, where is the best place to buy it online for me? I'm living in Europe.

OverAndOut
June 8th, 2007, 12:18 AM
Hi, best place to get it from is :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=275023&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

The ZCam4 doesnt need a camcorder with AV in. Your biggest hurdle will be finidng a camcorder with the correct lens size for the attachment.

Have a read through this thread, it may help you out.

http://www.thecandidboard.com/forums/camera-gear-and-methodology-chat/t-v-zcam4-61891.html

videocandidwalkerupskirter
June 8th, 2007, 09:16 AM
I do not understand , but I thought that the vzcam came out with lens adapters.

Isn't it like that ??

tx

OverAndOut
June 8th, 2007, 05:01 PM
Yes it does (4 of them), but they dont fit a lot of the newer camcorders.

drew7676
June 8th, 2007, 08:19 PM
http://www.spygearco.com/Images/DynaSpy/spycam_1.jpg

Hi guys i have a camera just like this with a wireless recevier. How do you think i can set it up to upskirt. Any tips? Thanks

loonity2007
June 11th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Yes it does (4 of them), but they dont fit a lot of the newer camcorders.

I've looked up the specs of the ZVCAM and apparently there is a 30 mm adapter delivered with it (also 3 other diameters).

Most of the new camcorders i've found have a 30.5 mm lense instead of a 30 mm.
Will the adapter ring (30 mm) fit the 30.5 mm camcorder diameter?

zorro1231
June 17th, 2007, 09:12 AM
Hi guys.
I'm new here and I've kinda looked quickly through this thread. Here is my question.
How can I get pics or a vid inside a strip club. Lighting isn't that great. There is a "no cell phone" sign outside. They obviously are aware that guys may try to take pics.
Opportunity for some great pics or vids sitting right at the stage. Early evening there are not a lot of customers, and I can seat myself so that the
other staff will be to my back. Also, it's summer time and the usual atire is just a short sleeve shirt with a pocket.
Thanks for any ideas.

zorro1231
June 28th, 2007, 05:49 AM
No response yet? Come on guys. I can't be the only perv here!!
Any ideas?

nikoli
August 6th, 2007, 02:29 AM
hi zorro, i too want to do the same, get some nice footage from a strip club. I am sure that someone in this forum has done this before. I recently got a pinhole, the one recommended by R213, b/w Sony super had ccd, .0003 lux, meaning good performance in low lighting and the pinhole is very tiny. My idea is to make a little hole in my black shirt in order to capture the performance. Although the pinhole is a very small camera, the wiring is quite bulky see the pic below. Is there any way to hook this system up without the bulky wiring. Also not shown here is the 8 "AA" battery pack which also adds to the bulk of the system (DC power source), the a/v analog in cables supplied by sony for hookup to my minidv cam further adds to the bulk. makes me wonder how guys can shoe cam with the bulky wiring.

Mr.Freeman
August 18th, 2007, 11:09 AM
I see the market for spycams is expanding. Now there is models available that record directly into Sd-card. And even with motion detection system built in!
IT's Plug and play.

I was considering one model (local e-bay) but the downside of that model was that it only recorded 320X240 video...otherwise it would have been Great.
No more carrying extra videocameras and wires...
I'll have to see where the markets are developing in this section.

EDIT:
If only these were cheeeper: Think about the TITS to be recorded
EDIT2: looks like they'r selling it half prize ..if only I got visa..:D
Edit3: So much alternative gadgets out there!

videocandidwalkerupskirter
August 18th, 2007, 03:34 PM
HiMr Freeman,
can u tell me the url of the site where u got this object in the photo ??

The problem with these PVR is the low quality recording mode , in comparison to a minidv with av-in , but have the problem of being bulker......
I am trying to have a better idea in where I could hide my minidv. I usually hide it in my front pack (NonNudeGirls.orgNonNudeGirls.orgNonNudeGirls.orgN onNudeGirls.orgNonNudeGirls.orgNonNudeGirls.org ?? I do not know how are they called )

thank u

Mr.Freeman
August 20th, 2007, 05:58 AM
I just googled stuff ("wireless mini dvr") and I found this.
This was the link for the sunglasses (http://www.pimall.com/nais/sunglasscam.html)

not the one I was originally interested in..
The one that records to memorycard (http://www.4hiddenspycameras.com/spykitnewgec.html) (slot in the receiver or dvr ) interests me.
I bet they will be cheaper in a year or so.

mammariecammery
September 3rd, 2007, 07:59 PM
shit! RD! I forgot about this thread, didn't realise it would go on this far, over a year! damn, good to see such an interest in pinhole cams ;) might get involved again ;)

sixtothree
October 6th, 2007, 01:20 AM
Hi Blizzard, here are some answers to a few of your questions.


* I have read this topic many times, which bit is the important bit for good videoquality, the camera or the recorder?

Both. A Camcorder with a ZCam4 pinhole adaptor will give you the best possible quality. Next up is a high res pinhole (480 lines or better) attached to the av/in of a camcorder. The advantage of recording into a Mini DV camcorder is that when you extract the footage from the camcorder it will be in the DV AVI format. This format is lossless (i.e. you get exactly what the pinhole gives you) & its the most widely supported video format for editing in packages such as Adobe Premier.

* What is at the moment the best way to record video, MiniDV or a PVR/DVR (Mustek ex.)? A MiniDV-recorder is more expensive?

Mini DV Camcorders can be more expensive than PVR's such as the Mustek or Archos but you also get the added functionality of using them as a camcorder (not just a recording device). One problem you will have in Europe is finding a Mini DV camcorder with Analog Passthrough (AV IN). Many European models have this feature removed due some crazy EU Tax on VCR type devices.

Camcorders also tend to be a bit more bulky & you can typically only record for 90 minutes onto 1 tape. The new HDV camcorders can apparently record 3 hours worth of footage onto 1 tape but they are quite expensive.

PVR's such as the Mustek & Archos tend to record in the MPEG4 format which is highly compressed and not ideal for editing. The Archos models (such as the 404, 504 & 604) have hard disks in them which means you can record for 3-4 hours continiously (dependant on battery life)

* Need all pinholecameras here own powersupply, or can it be powered with a PVR?

Some PVR's can power external cameras, though this isn't always practical due to oddball power connectors, a low supplied voltage, and reduced battery life. You really need to check the specs of the unit first & ask some questions.

It's usualy better to supply the pinhole with its own power (typically a battery pack of 8 x 1.2v rechargable batteries). A pinhole that requires 12v of power will normally work fine with a 9.6v battery pack.

* Where do i put the camera in the strap (mammariecammery??)? See the picture as example.

Thats a tough question to answer. It really depends on your method of approach & what type of target / location you are hoping to shoot. Once you actually get some gear you may also realise that some things are practical & others are not.


Hope that helps.

This thread is fantastic and I haven't even come close to reading all of it. Thanks a lot for all this info. I've been considering trying the pinhole thing for a long time but have never really known where to start. Gotta get on this thing tomorrow and read the whole thread. Anyways thanks again and hopefully I'll have more to post soon. And thanks to Whitestar, this has me looking into the zcam4.

buttlord
October 8th, 2007, 01:36 AM
ok....here's one for you, i've got a neighbor who like to leave her bathroom window open and to top it off she has quite a few friends over often leaving it a clean shot. My living room has 3 windows that look right into her bedroom and her bathroom window. My roommate and I want to get a camera to set up shop and grab some amazing video but not sure where to start. I've looked a quite a few on line and I'm not sure which to buy. My windows are about 15 yards or so from her window and so I thinking I would need something with a little zoom but I'm not finding anything. suggestions? I've also thought of buying a wireless pinhole cam and attaching it to my side of the fence and going from there but then you've got the worries about angles and all that stuff. Believe me...If I get some of this stuff, you guys would be the first to see it. some of her friends are freaking smokin! Should anyone decide to reply to this post please pm me so I know to look for your response. Thanks in advance for your input.

Buttlord

OverAndOut
October 9th, 2007, 09:28 PM
Hey sixtothree, nice to get some feedback from people who found the info useful. One thing I will say about the ZCam is that it wil be a LOT harder to conceal than a pinhole. I'm still looking for a suitable bag & method to secure mine. With a pinhole you have a heap more options.

abraham
August 25th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Wow. what a great thread. I just spent the day reading the whole thing and I think I got my shit down. whatever happened to rd313? I see he stopped posting a few months before the thread died.

RD313
August 27th, 2008, 07:01 AM
I come back occasionally. I've more or less quit. This hobby's gotten expensive, and while I've learned a lot, I haven't gotten as much bang for my buck as I've wanted. Low light, bad setups, weak cables, and fucking ceiling lights have ruined a lot of shots for me.

Here's something I figure out that I think everyone should know : the thinner the walls around the pinhole, the better. I used to have mine go through a a shoe... it made it completely undetectable (you had to be almost directly perpendicular to it just to see the lens shine, almost impossible to notice). Only problem is that the thick wall of shoe in front of the camera created a lot of interference... it has something to do with physics, and the way light enters cameras... In a nutshell, the more "exposed" your camera is... that is, the thinner the walls around the pinhole, the clearer your picture's going to be. I made the mistake of having about 2mm of shoe around the camera.. which did wonders to hide my camera, but sometimes ruined shots.

Also, your camera's only about as good as your recording device. Nowadays, with the popularity of the method, and with asian manufacturers going nuts with this (indeed, China's a real security systems powerhouse right now), great cameras are available for cheap... great recorders? Not so much. It's basically to the point where some might want to consider having a wireless setup, with a recorder in a separate item like a bag or a backpack. Miniature DV recorders are just as expensive as ever.

As for the wires, I think I mentioned before that my setup was completely body-worn. Everything I needed was wired and on my person. I dealt with wires by doing two things : 1.) I measured how much wire I needed to reach from my foot to my pocket with the DVR, with enough slack to let me walk without disturbing the setup. 2.) I taped the wires to the inside of my leg on the thigh and calf. Receivers are smaller and cheaper than ever... eliminating wires eliminates a whole slew of problems. Let me tell you, wiring was half the challenge for this thing... especially because there just aren't cables meant to take this kind of abuse... that and the fact that a lot of cameras have the port jutting out the back of the camera... way too many places where a 3 foot, flexible set of wires can fail.

I think I've said just about everything I can about shoecams. I mean, by now, everyone should know that it's a serious trade-off in quality and security, especially if you're not able to shell out for high-end recorders. ixalon's equipment and setup is far superior in just about every aspect. I'm actually so impressed with not just his setup, but his technique, that I recommend asking him what the deal is with his setup. I mean, by my standards he can be pretty lax about keeping secure (sometimes.. sometimes he does something kinda risky, or he gets stepped on... and it doesn't really matter that much), but he gets great shots. Everything he gets in his videos are what I believe to be the archetypal example of what shoecamming should be.

I stopped posting a while ago for a couple of reasons : 1.) I haven't been able to get out much for this hobby. I don't have as many nights of hunting. 2.) Having to rewire things is a pain. 3.) Some of my equipment broke (recorder), and I simply don't have enough money or motivation to put any more money into it.

I didn't get caught, go to jail, or even have an unpleasant scrape. I've never so much as received any dirty looks. I got stepped on every once in a while, but no one gives it any mind... ever. However, accidentally scraping a bag against the back of someone's leg is a good way to get dirty looks.

Maybe I'll come back to post here, I ordered some new equipment, but I'm going to switch back to a handcam system. Ceiling lights have ruined so many shots for me, that I've decided to use a system where I more or less carry a pinhole/DVR in my hand and get under the hems.. I'm doing a complete 180 of what I used to do (everything; technique, no wires, a color camera, using a CMOS sensor).. however, don't take this as me saying "I'm coming back, with GOOD videos this time." Not unless I get something good. In the near future, I'm going to have a lot more time, and a lot more opportunities to resume this hobby. I picked up some neat techniques from the Japanese, and will be using a device that I seems almost tailormade for this kind of thing.

Either way, I'm glad you guys appreciate all the discussion that went on here. I had no clue this would ever become such a huge thread, or continue to keep interest long after I left. Still, I won't be fielding questions anymore.

aussievoy
August 30th, 2008, 08:24 PM
great too hear from u man and even better to hear that u didn't dissapear because u ran into serious trouble.............
good luck in what ever it is u choose to do in the future

abraham
September 1st, 2008, 07:30 AM
Thats exactally what I plan on doing (hand cam/sleeve cam). My prospect is a lot less risky however. I plan on shooting the inlaws at partys. Two awsome looking sister in laws and 4 hot nieces. Have to decide on set up though whats the latest/best set up as far as pvr and cam?

Fighting Irish
September 2nd, 2008, 10:02 PM
I need advice on using a camera(keeping it in my pocket) and running a cable up through my jumper and down through my sleave to my hand with a pinhole camera, so i can shoot video without having to hold something obvious like a digi camera in my hand.
Is this possible, what products could i use? Please post links

Thanks

RD313
September 5th, 2008, 02:13 AM
You can use the exact same method as I described earlier, using the same kind of products I mentioned earlier. However, since the thing would be in your sleeve, it's entirely possible that you could do some sewing. However, if you're trying to get uppies using this setup, I don't see why you couldn't just use a regular camera. It wouldn't be too much harder than what you're talking about. And of course, if you're just taking regular candids, the hipshot works wonders for this kind of situation.

abraham
September 5th, 2008, 12:37 PM
any advice on whats the latest/best set up as far as pvr and cam? I'm trying to get the inlaws and my digital cam is to big to take candids with out them knowing. I have a wife around also who may take the cam and check out what I have been snapping. Would like no one to know I have a cam. Hence the board cam. Just wondering whats the latest. Not sure if the technology has changed much since some of the older posts in this thread. So whats the latest/best set up as far as pvr and cam? Thanks for all your help so far.

abraham
October 17th, 2008, 06:08 AM
still interested if someone can chime in.

ZuluX
November 18th, 2008, 04:06 AM
Alot of cool advice. Just wondering, why not just go out and shoot the chicks who openly sit with their legs open showing their panties or non panties wearing dresses? That way there is really no issue of security risks getting caught by security cameras or cops etc. The most you would have to do is make sure the chick or someone around you doesn't see you take the shot. and when they do it usually isn't more than some loud embarrasing putdown of you being some pervert. When that happens you just get up and move on like you don't know they're talking about you (I know, I've been caught once or twice but always left without anything more than some chick trying to let everybody hear her call you names). But even if so, you wouldn't get carted away by the po po since the chick openly and willingly exposed herself to the public for all to see and you just took the shot. Now my question for this forum since these types of upskirts are all I do (no bagcam/shoecam uppies) is does anyone know of a more discrete camera to use since mine is alittle big and hard to work with (Sony Cybershot)? I'm certainly not dissing anyone who does the shoe thing or bag, hell I wish I had that kind of nerve but I would rather not take the risk. You guys are the pros at that sort of upskirting and I think starting this thread is a really great thing for us all. If you know of a better camera I can use for the spread open sitters let me know and I will certainly post what I get from it. As a matter of fact I've already post alot of my work in the candid upskirts section. Check it out.

and where exactly do you find "spreaders"? is there a place where they usually hang out? other than brothels and stripper joints? if that was so damn easy, then this board would have been flooded with HQ pics of spreaders... I personally have come across couple of times where girls were sitting like that; one I realised after looking around that she was actually posing for her boy friend who was snapping away from a little distance. I lost interest immeadiatelyl I mean good on her but just wasnt my thang... Second, was sorta ok but she was a bigger girl and her thunder thighs were covering most of anything anyways....

The other point is risk and thrill is part of this game. I personally enjoy that aspect; I ain't stupid but that element of risk is prob whats keeping me going.

anyways, I have ranted enough... IMHO...

tony1978
November 24th, 2008, 08:44 AM
I realy need some help. I have a perfect chanse of getting some great videos but today I dont have any equipment at all. Please tell me what I should use.

I will cover the camera in a bag the will be still on the ground. For me the price is not the most important. I can pay a little extra to get som good equipment. I want the quality of the videos to be very good.

Please help me with good advice how to hide the camera in the bag and what equipment that is best to use.

Hope for some good advice.

/Tony

jvrg
December 2nd, 2008, 09:49 AM
Let's go nano...

RD313
January 26th, 2009, 09:14 AM
Technology hasn't changed much but prices have dropped a bit. The biggest problem now (as it was 5 years ago) is still the issue of having a good PVR. If you're planning something indoors, I recommend a nanny-cam, and a good lighting setup in the room. If you're on the go, and want an on-the-spot video camera, look for stick-cams that started making rounds about a year ago. They are about the size of a 5-pack of gum, have one-button recording, and no LCD screen. They plug into USB and use microSD cards as storage mediums. They are an all-in-one solution... the lens, battery, and recorder are all in one self-contained unit. The lenses are pretty bad, but the recording device is amazing... 22-30FPS all full frames at 640x480. It does on the fly compression as well, so the bitrate ends up being about 500kbits a sec. You can find them for about $100 USD on eBay, don't pay more than $120, they're all made by the same manufacturer. Short of using a high-quality PVR, you will not find a better recorder... but like I said, the lenses are pretty shoddy. There are two models out there, one that records at 177x144 and one that will do 640x480.

I hate to say it, but it doesn't seem like tiny, high-quality PVRs, with AV input are ever going to take off. If someone can find a decent one, for under $200 that will work with AV in, please post about it.

loonity2007
February 28th, 2009, 10:24 PM
what do you think of this recorder? i can buy it for 75 € but i'm not sure i can connect a pinhole cam to it...

http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=740

octavius123
July 5th, 2009, 09:46 PM
I hate to say it, but it doesn't seem like tiny, high-quality PVRs, with AV input are ever going to take off. If someone can find a decent one, for under $200 that will work with AV in, please post about it.

How about this one?
http://shopkami.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=1852&category_id=17
http://fastfilms.co.uk/mini-dvr1.php

Assuming these models are the same as the other Mini DVRs with the same appearance (most are black though) and specs, it's a brilliant recorder. The picture is sharp and clear with no blurring when there is motion and it handles different lighting very well. It can be used indoors as long as it's reasonably well lit (most stores are) as well as outdoors. It's far better than the more expensive Lawmate PV-500 which gives blurry and darker movies.
I was really surprised by the difference in lighting as I thought that was only controlled by the camera.

The Mini DVR occasionally "hangs" or "freezes", and in the end my copy died when the AV IN connection became loose. Apart from that it's very easy to use and it's so small you can hold it in your hand while filming. The LCD screen is very good so I guess for those interested in upskirting it would be possible to get a quick "preview" to see if it's worth the risk of further filming.

ThaJukilo
May 7th, 2010, 05:56 PM
How about this one?
http://shopkami.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=1852&category_id=17
http://fastfilms.co.uk/mini-dvr1.php

...



I have the same, i think it's the cheapest you can find where i ordered it --> http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/high-definition-mini-pinhole-spy-camcorder/, Super quality, just had the same problem as you, the av-in became loose, it was ok if you just held it in the right position, but the moment you move ...